TMP Setting Discussions

I'm opening a new thread because I suspect these would get lost in the old one where we were discussing pre-opening ideas. Now we can start to look at how the setting is or isn't working and compare what we were hoping for vs what we're getting.

Feel free to bring up new ideas or points, pick at what you think isn't working and where you hope it could go.

Things to start thinking about:

• Gun laws and responses
• Options for playing IC Law - how and effect
• Setting-affecting events
• IC TMP/room security
• Limbo and combat

Gun laws and responses
This means guns designed to cause harm/damage.
TMP uses current-day NYC laws. To allow characters their weapory without the obvious problem of having the place shot up daily, TMP as a club has the policy of not checking for weapons but if a weapon is make obvious (eg. taking it out, waving it about etc) staff may confiscate the weapon. This policy works with the NYC gun laws, which basically states that:
within New York City a license/permit to carry on the person must be issued by the police comissioner of the city in addition to the state license to posess a handgun.
To obtain the secondary license the person must prove need: eg necessary for self defense. (Proof that the person may be in physical danger, eg from a specific criminal or criminal group. Not just "I might get mugged".)
Within NYC, you must also have a permit to purchase, own or carry shotguns and rifles other than purchasing in NYC and then immediately transporting out of NYC.

Other gun laws include:

• A NY state license is needed to posess or carry a handgun.
• Handgun licenses are not avaliable for people under 21 unless restricted for use at a shooting range or similar.
• A license permits the person to carry a loaded or unloaded handgun unless restricted:licenses are usually given as location restricted unless the applicant has shown unmistakable need, eg for target shooting, hunting, or self-defense.
• There is no license required for a person over 16 to posess a shotgun or rifle.
• It is illegal to possess/carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle.
• Antique and replica firearms may be owned without license but also without amunition. A permit/license if needed to possess the amunition and use the gun.
• Antique and replica pistols require a license.
• Machine guns, large capacity ammunition guns (more than 10 shots), assault weapons etc are basically illegal in total. Be aware, some handguns are identified as assault weapons.

In case it needs to be pointed out, it's illegal to point a gun at another person, whether intending to use it or not. Firing one in a place where it may endanger someone is also illegal.




Options for playing IC law - how and effect
Law as a general idea is a big part of a modern city setting. Although minor things may be overlooked in general (people aren't always going to note a minor with a fake ID, or a mugger outside), players should remember that actions which are open or discovered may have IC consequenses. (TMP may issue IC tresspass notices, characters may be caught by NPC cops, etc.) To totally ignore the presense of law is to ignore the setting. There are many ways around this, the easiest simply being to think ahead - disguise before making an attack so the victim cant identify your character, conceal illegal weaponry.

Currently IC law is supposed to be a restricted character type. The case for this is simple: actual law characters would need to be able to detain or arrest other characters within the setting if they were not to "break setting". But for us as mods to allow this would risk giving rise to favoritism of one player over another (by aiding the law or the crim), and if one character's role or player's will is pushed against another character/player it may become OOC harassment even if through only IC stuff.
Another frequent concern about having IC law played is whether or not the character is subject to the law itself...
And the fact that although WIZO characters are certainly not immune to the law, we cannot accept characters/players as authorities over us as it undermines our presense as moderators (which we remain first and foremost, before players or characters) and again may lead to cries of favoritism.



Setting-affecting events
It isn't realistic for there to be widespread destruction in NYC. We can't have them in any setting, unless it's a very major story which involves a high number of patrons and has been cleared by the setting coordinator (I'm TMP's, Siani is CRT's) who also clears things with the team and our team Lead (Adele).
How do you guys feel about les widespread destruction, eg city blocks or power blackouts? Should they be allowed in general, allowed with prewarning, allowed with clearance and prewarning? Remember, in a city news spreads pretty fast due to business as well as news media and personal media (cellphones/pagers).
Something that affects an entire area affects not only the characters in one story but may also affect others via transport, electricity, communication and general safety/peace of mind.



IC TMP/room security
This is mostly a FYI, although if people want to put their oars in sure. Don't expect me to give out TMP's security secrets though. We do need to keep it secure enough... lol
Remember, TMP is connected to a government-type agency which has offices in the floor above. It deals with a very sensitive issue: aliens in the area. Because of this TMP's IC security is higher than a club's should be, but because of the need to have the club itself more or less open, the security is concealed.
Tmp has the ability of being locked down if under threat, the exits and windows sealed very securely very quickly. It does not have weapons on motion sensors or AI operated scans. It may have sound-based defenses. Armed security personel do exist in the building who have access to (and permits to use) weaponry.




Limbo and combat
The subject of a TMP specific combat room has not yet been re-raised with the bosses. At last check, they want to see TMP prove itself with numbers of players before assigning us more resources (eg the SAM serving bot). Because Limbo also remains the room where players of 3 or more can play out events in another setting (CoC allowing ), it is not obvious if a scene is in the alley outside TMP or elsewhere when it is spotted that people are in the room.
Have you any concerns or coments about how this is working so far?


Whew! Anyone still with me after all that? I'll be glad to read discussions and responses!

- Pounamu

Let me just add my two cents...

A license to carry a concealed firearm is precisely that, and nothing more. Said firearm should remain concealed; displaying it openly could be considered "brandishing a weapon" according to real-life law. Drawing it from concealment and waving it around is a major no-no, as well. A concealed-carry permit does not authorize the permit-holder to actually fire his weapon, nor does it grant him powers of arrest.

IRL, the brandishing and/or discharging of a firearm within the city limits is treated quite harshly. Pulling a gun should be an absolute last resort, if your character cannot resolve the situation peacefully, cannot retreat, and feels in immediate danger of being killed or suffering serious bodily harm. Pulling a gun because somebody makes an insulting or vaguely threatening remark is just plain childish, IMHO...

If you insist on having your character carry a gun, either legally or illegally, describe it something like this: "astute observers may notice a tell-tale bulge beneath his jacket, suggesting a concealed handgun." No need to quote make, model, and caliber in your character description. After all, we're not supposed to be able to see it at a glance...

Just a few personal thoughts...

Fake IDs... It's really hard to get a fake ID past an experinced person who actually cares. They frequently recieve training on all the well known forms of fake IDs. Someone who's really good can tell the weight difference or minor color difference on a fake. Most 'Fake' IDs are simply altered IDs. Out of State IDs aren't much better. Many places have a book that tells how to check all IDs. Oh, bartenders in NY can and have been prosicuted for serving to minors or for serving to someone who's drunk. In addition, their place of employment can and will lose their liquor licence or have it suspended.

Setting Affecting Events... Personally... I'm cool with anything up to and including a tactical missile strike. Also included, certain natural disasters that do not result in widespread and/or complete destruction. So... 250,000 casualty total and 3 billion in property damage or less.

TMP defenses... We're talking a dance club, loud music, etc... how effective are sound based defenses really gonna be?

Combat... I think we've been doing fairly well of keeping conflicts down to a minimum. More intrested in the boards and getting rid of the can of worms at the moment then the combat room.

alright, that's my 4 cents...

Evidently you've never studied biology, Jet..
The sounds from music on speakers can do damage but over a long period of time. It affects the tollerance and sensitivity. But there's tones that can be produced which can do far more damage over a very short period of time, including bursting the eardrum which would cause permenant hearing loss. I hope TMP doesn't use qite that tone or level... But these tones would be affective even over the top of base music. There are some tones registered by the brain without our conciousness registering them in the ears too. We're just not as sensitive to them as say dogs or cats. But give them the right pitch, they could affect us.
A careflly chosen pitch and level of sound would be good for disarming people because they'd have to drop their weapons to get reasonable cover over their ears. Additional pitches would affect other species or even crack some parts of technology... that bit might not be such a great idea... The prob is, people have to play along with it.

I don't agree that major disasters are "cool". Not if it means any pup and his owner could demand them for their games. That could mean we end up with major man-made disasters 7 time a year and natural ones 3 tims a year. That's just unrealistic. If someone does want such a big event I think Pou should give the yay or nay and if it's man-made there should be an obvious cost to the characters involved, not just the public. I mean do you honestly think no one official would find out who blew up something? In the current day it only takes them a matter of time. In the future I'd say it'd take them not long at all. And then there would be pretty serious IC repercussions. Eg, I do't buy that the security monitors in the subway around the explosion would all have been effected. They'd have better systems than that, and protected the way lil black boxes are protected.

Intimidation law, this law disallows firearms in plain sight, another law that was set in turn due to the fact that you need a concealed weapons permit to carry a hand gun so lets not forget that one.. so if you are walking around with a 6 shooter at your hip for everyone to see then you will mostlikely be ticketed and if you do not have the proper permit, then it can be confenscated. another thing is bladed and edged weapons of a certain size and length are not permitted, nor personally would i want to dance with a walking sword shop... * needs a bandage now. * there are some small coins thrown in the pot.. that is if the laws are current..

As for sonic waves.. you can make someone feel sick or put them in a dizzy spell, something so vicous as making there ears bleed would truely punish those that are innocent as well, though as then again even certain forms of light can also interact with the body(hypnotic patterns) , again you can also control sound and direct it, so there again with in a short distance you can direct sound as such to a small five foot area. In the sted of a deffense of sound just because you cant hear it, does not mean it is not there, as long as that tone of sound is present, it will effect a person.
hapy happy.. there is so much that can be done.. though i think that more actively appearing wizo's will solve any problem that occurs.

The thing about the effectiveness of sonic weapons, it was a joke... ha ha. I'm aware of a study that found that sub-bass tones can cause the feeling of a ghost passing by. It maybe be possible to use sub-bass tones to cause people to shiver/convulse uncontrollably as if extremely cold. Consider the scale of some of the things that went on in the cantina. If you were to let the bugs loose in NYC, you could easily rack up damage totals in the realm I described. Add in vampires, werewolves, aliens, and so on... well, eventually, someone's gonna get hurt. Not to mention that numbers I listed were worst case scenarios. Unless the happenings of such large scale events were really interesting and enjoyable, I'd be questioning them as well.

heh i am sure you were joking, i was actually clerifying about the sonic waves and there effect. Question, how can a law that effects outside not incluse a feds. building as well? i think its quite unbelievable that almost every character in the TMP has a weapon atleast in view, you would think the bouncers would confenscate them, this leaves for some serious wearyness, and the point of potential damage cost, i mean it is a club, its there to make money right?



and does anyone have idea how much a 64 1/2- a 70 mustang would run in the year 2030? or how absolutly rare they would be due to the years of crashes accidents and such.. well over $200,000.oo so that is also hard to swollow that half of the population of the TMP owns a mustang.. oh well Shabans is probably making a killing off selling Kit Cars for the mustang..


just something to discuss.

Winter Alexander said:

heh i am sure you were joking, i was actually clerifying about the sonic waves and there effect. Question, how can a law that effects outside not incluse a feds. building as well? i think its quite unbelievable that almost every character in the TMP has a weapon atleast in view, you would think the bouncers would confenscate them, this leaves for some serious wearyness, and the point of potential damage cost, i mean it is a club, its there to make money right?



and does anyone have idea how much a 64 1/2- a 70 mustang would run in the year 2030? or how absolutly rare they would be due to the years of crashes accidents and such.. well over $200,000.oo so that is also hard to swollow that half of the population of the TMP owns a mustang.. oh well Shabans is probably making a killing off selling Kit Cars for the mustang...

Click to expand...

First point... well... not everyone has a weapon in view. IC-wise... I don't think it's really there to make money. I think it's more of a cover for the WIZO place upstairs. On that note, someone might consider a large group of loyal patrons with views in tune (or immediate intrests that run parellel) with that of WIZO a good added security measure and a good alternitive to blowing cover in situations just below those requiring a heavy strike team. OOC... there's not really a way to inforce it without putting a serious damper on the casual attitude in the short term.

Second point... Mustangs are popular and current models are likely still in production. It's entirely reasonable that people are still reconditioning them and possibly building them from stock parts. Might want to look up the cost of building one stock and tack on a few thou.

Oh, and the sonic thing was more to inform other people who's reply brought their awareness of that point :turkey:

Popular or not, we're still talking about cars that are sixty-some years old. Just consider: in the present real-life year of 2005, how many 1940's vintage cars are still on the road? Not many, and those that are still in drivable condition are too valuable as collector's items to be used as somebody's daily commuter.

Plus the probability that the environmental laws in 2030 New York City would slap loads of taxes (if not an outright ban) on a classic car that doesn't meet modern emissions standards...

When the Berlin Wall came down, the East German automobiles that suddenly flooded across the border didn't come anywhere near meeting West German emissions laws. (The East German and Russian cars had 2-cycle engines that ran on gas/oil mix, and no catalytic converters or smog pumps. The West Germans called them "Little Stinkers.") Car and Driver magazine imported an East German Trabant 601 to the US as a curio for their fleet of test vehicles, but the EPA put their foot down and said "That car will never be allowed to be driven on public roads in America."

It would be the same situation in 2030 with an early Mustang or other car from the 1960's, unless its owner was very wealthy and the car was heavily modified.

Just speaking from a lil experience...It is very possible to modify classic cars to conform to emission standards, given the right engineer and right amount of money. Realistically though, alot of classic cars do not have classic engines, they have classic designed engines (ie match the design but make them new). I'm insanely jealous of anyone who manages to own a classic car with all the classic parts. *sniffles* Let's face it, cars were not meant to last that long. Thumbs up to replicas though!