Conan, Grim Tales, or Iron Heroes

So I've got Iron Heroes, and I like it. But I'm wondering if there's something that would be a little easier on the DM's side. I heard Grim Tales and Conan are pretty good for a similar kind of thing - could somebody tell me if they're easier to DM? For the proponents of the other two, why would they be better than IH?

Ouch, tough choice! I'm in the Conan camp personally...but Grim Tales and Iron Heroes are strong contenders. I'd say go with Conan for a Hyborian Age game and throw in the IH stunt system. For other eras or worlds, go with IH or Grim Tales. They're all very, very good.

I'll lead off with a thought or two:

"Easier to DM" is a rather iffy notion. IH, for example, features much more complexity of combat than Conan, because of the many and varied class abilities, the feat mastery system, the extensive use of token abilities, and the stunts and zones. On some level, combat is SUPPOSED to be complex in IH; it's designed to encourage and accommodate as many cinematic maneuvers as possible. Combat in Conan is a bit more... er, direct. The maneuvers are far fewer, more limited, and more straightforward, and the body count (either mooks or PCs!) is likely to mount up too fast for there to be much running around or making arrow ladders or such. OTOH, IH is designed to be balanced with D&D CRs and general adventure design. Thus, IH characters are easier to run in published modules, etc than are Conan characters.

Conan is, IMHO, generally simpler than IH if one judges by the simple criterion of page count. The classes have a limited (IMHO, rather bland) set of abilities, except for the Noble and the Scholar, whose capabilities require some careful DM and player research to fully understand. Skills, feats, and the combat system don't require a lot of reading to grasp.

The reasons that Conan might be better than IH are conditional, IMHO:

1) If you run a Hyborian campaign. Er, no question here. Conan has the races, the flavor, etc., and the classes and combat system are written with running a nice, grim, bloody Conanesque adventure set in mind.

2) If you want something a bit lower on the power curve, or generally a bit more "gritty" (gods, I hate that word!). High-level Conan PCs have far fewer hit points than their D&D/IH counterparts, weapons do more damage, and there's no magical gear floating around. Plus, combat against multiple mooks is substantially more deadly. Add all these things together, and it means a world in which PCs are much more likely to die than one in which IH is the default ruleset. Keep in mind that IH PCs are just as powerful as D&D PCs; they just use innate abilities and skills, rather than magic, to get there. Conan PCs (or, IIRC, Grim Tales PCs) are simply NOT as powerful as D&D PCs. Prick them, they bleed, etc.

rycanada said:

So I've got Iron Heroes, and I like it. But I'm wondering if there's something that would be a little easier on the DM's side. I heard Grim Tales and Conan are pretty good for a similar kind of thing - could somebody tell me if they're easier to DM? For the proponents of the other two, why would they be better than IH?

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I prefer Grim Tales, but that's beacuse it is based on the (IMHO) less restrictive system architecture of d20 Modern. Mind you, it's still very much a pulp fantasy game, although it also contains somewhat limited treatments of pulp post-apocalypse and alternate reality fiction. It's truly a well-designed supplement, and fairly self-contained (although I'd recommend that you at least have a copy of the d20 Modern SRD handy while using it). Personally, I think it does pulp fantasy in the vein of Conan better that the Conan game itself does.

jdrakeh said:

I prefer Grim Tales, but that's beacuse it is based on the (IMHO) less restrictive system architecture of d20 Modern. Mind you, it's still very much a pulp fantasy game, although it also contains somewhat limited treatments of pulp post-apocalypse and alternate reality fiction. It's truly a well-designed supplement, and fairly self-contained (although I'd recommend that you at least have a copy of the d20 Modern SRD handy while using it). Personally, I think it does pulp fantasy in the vein of Conan better that the Conan game itself does.

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Agreed, although my experience with Conan is limited to flipping through the various books and what I have read on EN World. I am a big fan of the GT approach, primarliy because you can do so many things with it...not just Pulp Fantasy...but historical scenarios, 1920s/CoC-type pulp, etc.

~ OO

rycanada said:

So I've got Iron Heroes, and I like it. But I'm wondering if there's something that would be a little easier on the DM's side. I heard Grim Tales and Conan are pretty good for a similar kind of thing - could somebody tell me if they're easier to DM? For the proponents of the other two, why would they be better than IH?

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If you want to run IHs, but feel a bit overwhelmed with all the token based abilities as a DM, Mastering Iron heroes introduced the villain classes, which ar really easy to use.

Also, as a DM, stay away from using too many IH classes as NPCs.

Well, first off, they are fairly different systems and certainly not interchangeable. Grim Tales and Conan are probably more closely related than either of them to IH as far as fell goes. Conan and GT are both gritty settings/rulesets; IH is not.

So if you have a particular style in mind, that will definitely affect your decision.

Style of play aside, I don't like IH. It's a clunky system IMO. Too many rewards for standing around doing nothing, even when it's billed as a action-packed ruleset. Many will disagree of course, but whatever, I'm fairly flame resistant.

While Conan has a setting "built-in", Grim Tales is completely open, and that's what I love about it. You aren't constrained by any archetypes or specific classes. The ruleset is also highly customizable and adaptable to an infinite number of settings and timelines.

Grim Tales and Conan are my number 1 and 2 favorite d20 books, respectively. You can check out my Grim Tales variant ruleset as well (in my sig). It's sort of a combination of the two.

jdrakeh said:

I prefer Grim Tales, but that's beacuse it is based on the (IMHO) less restrictive system architecture of d20 Modern. Mind you, it's still very much a pulp fantasy game

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Once again, by default, Grim Tales is NOT a pulp system! It can be if you want it to but right out of the box, Grim Tales is a gritty and fairly lethal system.

Old One said:

because you can do so many things with it...not just Pulp Fantasy...but historical scenarios, 1920s/CoC-type pulp, etc.

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I think it is great for anything pulp really, although the rules seem to be focused primarily on fantasy (the post-apoc and alternate modern rules seem to compose a significantly smaller portion of the main rulebook). That said, I find that it leaves quite a bit to be desired where non-pulp genres are concerned (i.e., I'd use it to run pulp anything in a heartbeat, but only use pieces of it with another system for running stuff in non-pulp genres).

GlassJaw said:

Once again, by default, Grim Tales is NOT a pulp system! It can be if you want it to but right out of the box, Grim Tales is a gritty and fairly lethal system.

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Once again, 'pulp' doesn't mean what you think it does! I'll re-iterrate that Conan, The Dying Earth, and the entire Lankmhar Saga are all works of PULP fantasy. Pulp does not mean 'high-flying heroics' in the literary community, although that kind of thing is a type of pulp. The use of the word 'pulp' to mean 'high-flying heroics' is purely a product of gamers re-inventing the wheel by applying the word (as it pertains to genre) incorrectly. Pulp can be grim and gritty (and in the case of pulp fantasy, almost always was).

Pulp Is Not Indiana Jones, But Indiana Jones Is Pulp

Click and learn.