jim pinto said:
i totally DISAGREE with this
there are only 36 basic plots. to say you don't like three of them limits design; limits options.
I think I may not have explained myself properly.
I may not like "hunting for rats in the sewers", but that's not to say I don't like the generic plot IIX or whatever. (Although I do like that plot hook. And I can't figure out what generic plot that one links up with - based on George Polti's "36 Dramatic Situations".)
If I'm not interested in a plot, I'm not interested. Telling me that I should be is just going to mess me up. And drive me away from the game, after I've kicked myself too many times for not enjoying the DM's plots. "I guess I just can't play RPGs."
jim pinto said:
it also undermines faith in the DM that a simple sewer excursion couldn't be more... couldn't be a discovery of a ruin or ancient holy place
I understand. It's a question of trust. If I had built up a relationship of trust with my DM, I'd be interested to see where things were going even if I found the plot hook boring.
But - putting advice in a book to players that tells them to follow plot hooks
that they find boring is just bad advice. You'll have players who do what the book says, come away thinking, "I did what I was told, and I had no fun. I guess RPGs are just not for me." Even when that's not the case.
So, you say, I won't put advice in the book that says you have to follow boring plot hooks. Great! We agree.
Make sure you say exactly that - if you don't spell it out, people can get the wrong idea. "Follow the DM's plot hooks" means "follow the ones you like and follow the ones you find boring." (I know there's a more succinct way of saying this.
)
jim pinto said:
and maybe... just maybe ... the first three plot hooks are setting the tone...'
If it's a boring plot, the tone you're setting is "This is a boring game."
jim pinto said:
the pcs don't get to make any character they want AND dictate the story the DM tells them ... not without paying for the ride
I don't want the DM to tell me a story. I can go to the library to get that, or turn on the TV.
If you do want the DM to tell you a story, fine; but not all players do, and unless you specify that your player advice applies only to certain people, I would consider it bad advice.
jim pinto said:
next they'll be telling the DM what sort of monsters they want to fight, to match their perfectly chosen favored enemy
Right, because I took levels in the Ranger class and didn't care whether or not I would get to use my abilities.
The players
are telling the DM what kind of monsters they want to fight. All you have to do is look at their character sheets. Rogues want to fight Sneak Attack-able creatures. Clerics and Paladins want to fight undead. A Fighter with Improved Disarm wants to fight guys with weapons. etc.
jim pinto said:
this kind of attitude is precisely why the book has merit
Play nice now!
Regarding the title of your post, there are a lot of players who "hate" DMs because of all the bad experiences out there. RPGs generally give a lot more power to the DM. (In a social game, I think that's a mistake.) A lot of DMs use this power irresponsibly. And a lot of players get pissed off because of it.
So anyway, what are the player's responsibilities?
- Play nice with other people. ie. Don't be a jackass. If you can't do that, go back to kindergarden.
- When you make your character, make sure he has a reason to adventure
in whatever world/setting/system you agreed to play. If all the characters that you want to play don't fit in or have a reason to adventure in a certain setting or system, don't play. Don't spoil everyone else's fun by saying "My guy wouldn't do that." Pick up the dice or go home.
- Make sure that you make it clear to your DM what kind of plot hooks you're going to bite on. Don't have him waste his energy by making up stuff you're not going to want to play.