Does the Fast Wild Shape feat increase the speed you activate Wild feats?

Rath the Brown · Nov 6, 2005

Does the Fast Wild Shape feat (or the Master of Many Form's Fast Wild Shape ability) affect the speed at which a character can use Wild feats? Here is the relevant text:

From the Player's Handbook:
From Wild Shape (Su):
"Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity."

From Complete Divine:
From Wild Feats (p. 79):
"Unless otherwise noted, changing form with wild shape or activating a wild feat is a standard action."

From the Wild Shape feat:
"Benefit: You gain the ability to use wild shape as a move-equivalent action."

From Complete Adventurer:
From the Master of Many Forms Class Features:
"...a master of many forms can use her wild shape ability as a move action, rather than a standard action."

Because the text under Wild Feats lists both wild shape and wild feats in the same sentence when stating how long it takes to use either one, I believe that anything that would speed up Wild Shape, would also speed up activating a Wild feat. So, I believe that a Master of Many Forms that has the Fast Wildshape ability, or a character with the Fast Wildshape feat would be able to activate Wild feats as a move action, as well as being able to use Wild Shape to change form as a move action. What do you think?

Rath the Brown · Nov 6, 2005

Anyone?

Legildur · Nov 7, 2005

Without having the complete text of all the relevant pieces in front of me, I'll give a conditional response.

I see 'using Wild Shape' and 'activating a Wild feat' as two separate entities.

As a consequence, I see Fast Wild Shape as only applying to adopting a new form. Is it also in Complete Divine? If so, and it was expected to work for both wild shape and feat activation, then you'd expect to see qualifying text to that effect.

Li Shenron · Nov 7, 2005

I would say that it allows only to speed up changing the shape, but see below.

It reminds me of divine feats and quicken turning, which IIRC does not allow to speed up using divine feats, only the basic turning usage. However, there's no need for divine feats and wild feats to actually work exactly the same.

BTW, which wild feats actually give you a use of wild shape that is different from the basic one? I have MotW but not CDiv, but I just can't think of any wild shape that allows you something different than changing shape

the Jester · Nov 7, 2005

Li Shenron said:
BTW, which wild feats actually give you a use of wild shape that is different from the basic one? I have MotW but not CDiv, but I just can't think of any wild shape that allows you something different than changing shape

Both CD and CV have a bunch of odd wild feats that allow you to do other stuff- gain a swim speed, for instance- by using a wild shape use for the day. They're actually quite cool (imho).

Legildur · Nov 7, 2005

Li Shenron said:
BTW, which wild feats actually give you a use of wild shape that is different from the basic one? I have MotW but not CDiv, but I just can't think of any wild shape that allows you something different than changing shape

Ignoring the prerequisites and specific details of each, you have the following Wild feats from CD:

Boar's Ferocity - fight while at negative hit points
Cheetah's Speed - Speed becomes 50ft for 1 hour
Eagle's Wings - Grow wings for one hour
Elephant's Hide - Gain +7 natural armor bonus for 10 minutes
Extra Wild Shape - Gain two additional wild shape uses per day
Fast Wild Shape - Wilde shape as a move equivalent action (shouldn't that read Move action?)
Grizzly's Claws - Gain claws for one hour
Lion's Pounce - Make a full attack on a charge
Oaken Resilience - Become like a tree and gain plant immunities
Serpent's Venom - Gain a poisonous bite attack for one minute
Swim Like a Fish - Swim underwater for one hour
Wolverine's Rage - Enter a rage for five rounds

Good flavour, but I figure that you can gain those abilities (or close enough) and more, and for a longer duration, through the standard wild shape forms.

Li Shenron · Nov 7, 2005

Legildur said:
Boar's Ferocity - fight while at negative hit points
Cheetah's Speed - Speed becomes 50ft for 1 hour
Eagle's Wings - Grow wings for one hour
Elephant's Hide - Gain +7 natural armor bonus for 10 minutes
Grizzly's Claws - Gain claws for one hour
Lion's Pounce - Make a full attack on a charge
Oaken Resilience - Become like a tree and gain plant immunities
Serpent's Venom - Gain a poisonous bite attack for one minute
Swim Like a Fish - Swim underwater for one hour
Wolverine's Rage - Enter a rage for five rounds

Well some of these imply to indeed change shape, but only partially, so the Fast WS may actually help.

Do you really need to spend a standard action to activate Boar's Ferocity and Lion's Pounce? It seems a mistake to me.

Lord Pendragon · Nov 8, 2005

Li Shenron said:
Well some of these imply to indeed change shape, but only partially, so the Fast WS may actually help.

I disagree. As was mentioned upthread, it's almost identical to the issue with Divine feats and Quicken Turning. Quicken Turning (or Wildshape) only allows one to speed up the use of the ability itself. Spending a "charge" of the ability to activate a completely different ability remains unaffected.

Do you really need to spend a standard action to activate Boar's Ferocity and Lion's Pounce? It seems a mistake to me.

I don't have the books in front of me, but remember that some of the feats are specific exceptions to the general standard action rule, as noted in their descriptions. I wouldn't be surprised if the two you mentioned are two such.

Li Shenron · Nov 8, 2005

Lord Pendragon said:
I disagree. As was mentioned upthread, it's almost identical to the issue with Divine feats and Quicken Turning.

I mentioned it myself, but after reading the list of actual wild feats effects, I am not so sure that it should be kept separate.

These feats seem to grant an ability that the druid can possibly get just by wildshaping into the correct animal form who has it. Most of the time it'll be better to just do that, unless you are already wildshaped and want an ability from another form without losing the current.

It's not a big deal, but I'd probably allow to consider these feats eligible for fast wild shape, on the purpose of making the synergy worth it. They don't seem powerful feats to me, so I don't think there will be balance problems at all.

FEADIN · Nov 8, 2005

As it is written:
From Complete Divine:
From Wild Feats (p. 79):
"Unless otherwise noted, changing form with wild shape or activating a wild feat is a standard action."

Lion's pounce and Boar's ferocity have a specific description (free action) for the others it's a standard action.

Does the Fast Wild Shape feat increase the speed you activate Wild feats?

Rath the Brown

First Post

Rath the Brown

First Post

Legildur

First Post

Li Shenron

Legend

the Jester

Legend

Legildur

First Post

Li Shenron

Legend

Lord Pendragon

First Post

Li Shenron

Legend

FEADIN

Explorer

Similar Threads