Planes and Planar Locations

Living Enworld Judge · Mar 21, 2007

Mispost.

Rae ArdGaoth · Mar 21, 2007

I'd like to revive this thread. It got barely any discussion, which is surprising to me because the planes are some of my favorite parts of a campaign setting. LEW has a particularly cool planar setup, with the ying yang and the spinning and the Enworphant (who is [or at least once was] named Morrus, I recently discovered), it's all very original and I like it a lot.

KO had some good one sentence blurbs about each plane, but I'm not sure they're unique enough. Some strike me as rather bland facsimiles of the standard (Greyhawk, I guess?) planes. The more original ones are a little confusing (Taka's plane, Falcon's Flight, I think I understand, but it's a bit vague). I think KO was trying to be vague and just toss out ideas, hoping for some discussion, but it just never happened.

Don't let me put words into your mouth, though, KO. =P

My own personal thoughts: Each plane should have "flavor text" and "rules information". The flavor text perhaps can be determined with a knowledge (the planes) check. Maybe every plane should have a series of knowledge checks as well? The rules information would be less vague, and have specific damages dealt, and all the "planar trait" information. Exactly how to get onto Taka's plane might be unknown to any character, but a DM needs to know how to handle a character's actions.

Also, I think inter- and intraplanar travel should be discussed. Maybe that's a whole different thread, but I don't like the "I think about it and I'm there" mechanic. There should be gate spells required, or allied deities should have permanent gates to each other's planes, or something. It always struck me as out of place that every plane had infinite layers, I think that could be discussed as well.

As far as I know, nobody's actually visited a planar location, so all this is up for a total revamp. I have a few ideas of my own, I'll need to flesh them out, though. I think I've rambled enough. I've probably just made some poorly thought out comments, but this is a brainstorm, so... whatever.

Anyway, discuss, folks!

Knight Otu · Mar 21, 2007

Rae ArdGaoth said:
KO had some good one sentence blurbs about each plane, but I'm not sure they're unique enough. Some strike me as rather bland facsimiles of the standard (Greyhawk, I guess?) planes. The more original ones are a little confusing (Taka's plane, Falcon's Flight, I think I understand, but it's a bit vague). I think KO was trying to be vague and just toss out ideas, hoping for some discussion, but it just never happened.

Don't let me put words into your mouth, though, KO. =P

More or less. I also didn't want to put too many constraints on the planes for further expansion (even if the standard Nine Hells are infinite, there's still only Nine of them). And yes, it's definitely inspired

p) by the Great Wheel, so that's where some of the blandness comes from.

My own personal thoughts: Each plane should have "flavor text" and "rules information". The flavor text perhaps can be determined with a knowledge (the planes) check. Maybe every plane should have a series of knowledge checks as well? The rules information would be less vague, and have specific damages dealt, and all the "planar trait" information. Exactly how to get onto Taka's plane might be unknown to any character, but a DM needs to know how to handle a character's actions.

That's what I tried to do, add specific traits to the planes and layers in question in addition. Knowledge checks would certainly be a nice addition as well. Regarding Taka's plane, it is a bit tough to rulify. A Will save every X feet that you can't fail voluntarily? Have to cast crushing despair on oneself? It isn't exactly as easy as saying "Ok, I lose my hope. I'm in." (What's next, a portal you can only go through by not wanting to go through, but you really want to go through it because a giant golem smith awaits you beyond?

)

Also, I think inter- and intraplanar travel should be discussed. Maybe that's a whole different thread, but I don't like the "I think about it and I'm there" mechanic. There should be gate spells required, or allied deities should have permanent gates to each other's planes, or something. It always struck me as out of place that every plane had infinite layers, I think that could be discussed as well.

Gate may be overkill. Plane Shift should be enough, if we want to get rid of that idea. I added some finite layers (the City of Trades), and some of the "building" layers may be finite as well.

As far as I know, nobody's actually visited a planar location, so all this is up for a total revamp. I have a few ideas of my own, I'll need to flesh them out, though. I think I've rambled enough. I've probably just made some poorly thought out comments, but this is a brainstorm, so... whatever.

The Heroes Must Rise team has reached the Astral plane (and established that the Githyanki exist there - now I'm wondering how long it'll take until someone wants to play a Gith

). Patlin did have some Knowledge checks for the plane as well.

Anyway, discuss, folks!

Yes, please!

By the way, I made a change to my proposal here. When I originally wrote up the Web of Lies, I must have forgotten some facts of the Drow deities.

Rae ArdGaoth · Mar 21, 2007

Wasn't there a discussion saying that Lilitu and Mishtuli hate spiders?

Knight Otu · Mar 21, 2007

Rystil proposed the idea that the dark elves hate spiders (and possibly used it in an adventure). It isn't necessarily the case for the deities themselves. Also, the name Web of Lies may be more figurative than literal, not to mention the legends may be wrong. If the layer is a literal spider web, ignorant surface dwellers may have thought "Hey, it's a big spider web, and this Lilitu goddess is so a spider, they must be connected!"

Rystil Arden · Mar 21, 2007

I covered my ass on that one by making sure I didn't claim that my dark elves were all dark elves, but to make our dark elves less boring and cookie cutter, I first of all never call them 'drow', second of all never associate them with spiders, and third have a goodly number of them (the ones looking to free Mishtuli) migrated to the surface and not living in any kind of 'Underdark'--after all, if their goddess is down there looking and couldn't find anything useful, why bother?

Patlin · Mar 22, 2007

Knight Otu said:
The Heroes Must Rise team has reached the Astral plane (and established that the Githyanki exist there - now I'm wondering how long it'll take until someone wants to play a Gith ). Patlin did have some Knowledge checks for the plane as well.

By the way, 3.5 Astral movement (tactically) officially makes my head hurt. I've got people 'falling' in about 8 different directions, and even doing handwave estimates I've spent a lot more time thinking about triangles, vectors, etc. then I anticipated.

Why on earth did they change it from the far simpler system in manual of the planes?