Decline of RPG sales
- Thread starter Belen
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Hussar
Legend
Turjan said:Because you don't get any others? Even if the quality level of WotC books is generally pretty high, there are a few WotC books that show horrible editing with typos and errors galore, whereas there are 3rd party companies that show a very high standard of editing (e.g., Malhavoc Press). I just mention this because I think it's better to refrain from over-generalizations.
Fair enough. But, for every Malhavoc Press, how many d20 publishers foist off books full of typos and glaring errors?
That's the point I'm trying to make. Many people, myself included, tend to lump products into two categories: WOTC and Everyone Else. I'm very sure that there are many people like me who have bought d20 products only to see such horrible quality that they'll never buy another. I've yet to see a 3.5 WOTC book that has those kinds of errors. Maybe I just don't buy enough books.
It does seem to me that WOTC is in a bit of a catch-22. They are getting blasted for not being original enough while at the same time are getting hammered for not bringing in new gamers. I really don't think you can do both. Let's face it, Eberron is NOT geared to older gamers like me. It doesn't draw from the traditional fantasy elements like Howard or Tolkein. It draws from what's popular now - anime, Harry Potter, and the like. And that's great. Drawing on traditional fantasy elements would have about zero interest value to a fourteen year old gamer. What do they care about Conan? Conan is something their GRANDPARENT'S read. Would you be interested in a game based on books your parents read? By drawing on what's popular now (and has been popular for long enough to say that it's not just a fad), hopefully they can start to draw in a younger audience. A younger audience doesn't need a spiffy new magic system because the standard system is new to them. They don't need an alternative character system, because the class based system is new to them.
WOTC is doing exactly what the market leader should be doing - expanding the market. If WOTC started publishing "innovative" alternative rule books, people would be complaining about how they are agressively forcing the d20 publishers out of business. WOTC is catering to new gamers, the ones that are going to have to buy PHB's in addition to their Explorers Guide to Eberron. And I say more power to them. So long as they keep targetting new gamers by publishing books that stay fairly true to "core", they will continue to draw new gamers. And that can't be bad for the hobby.
Eberron does get points for originality, but...I still wish they'd do official D20 versions of Spelljammer and DarkSun (which, for all their warts, were a little more innovative than Eberron is).
Don't get me wrong- I do have a couple of Eberron books, but thats about as far as I'll go with it.
(For that matter, I'd like to see the return of quasi-historical settings, like Maztica).
Don't get me wrong- I do have a couple of Eberron books, but thats about as far as I'll go with it.
(For that matter, I'd like to see the return of quasi-historical settings, like Maztica).
Well, technically, TSR already did Greyhawk 2: Electric Boogaloo several times over:
Forgotten Realms
Mystara
Birthright
Dragonlance
They also did some fresher stuff too:
Spelljammer
Planescape
Dark Sun
Some culture-specific fantasy:
Al Qadim
Kara Tur
Maztica
The Horde
European historical stuff:
Celts
Vikings
Mighty Fortress
They're maintaining Forgotten Realms, so that's their Greyhawk 2: Electric Boogaloo setting, but it's long in the tooth, and I suppose it can't really be dropped because it still spins money. So Eberron is a compromise; an attempt to have another Forgotten Realms, but different enough not to be Greyhawk 2 and compete directly with FR...but not to have too much of a twist either (like Dark Sun, Spelljammer and Planescape had) because it had to support novels. So Eberron is perhaps a result of Forgotten Realms not being retired, and for criteria which it can support with regards to selling novels (must have enough Greyhawkesque generic fantasy tropes not to be alien) and D&D product (e.g. all inclusiveness of monsters and races).
When viewed in this light, it's more about compromise than leading the market - TSR's more off-the-wall settings were leading. Eberron is aimed directly at the markets, and at least partially defined by that. So in a way, it's a world of compromise. Forgotten Realms saw compromise from the early days too (thinking mainly of stuff like importing the "British Dragonlance" setting as Moonshae and the slapping on of all the culture-specific settings), but perhaps in a less calculating way, and not at a foundation level...but then, WOTC is better at making money than TSR was, so they're just doing what good corporations do.
Still can't help thinking that the criteria which were being looked for were a result of thinking inside the box....that maybe some sort of Setting Construction Kit or something (not suggesting this idea is any good, just pointing that other possibilities are there) would have been a better path (given that that's something DMs love, so helping them with it seems a potential source of income - TSR dipped their toes in that area a couple of times, but something much grander might take off more), if not for the fact that that doesn't generate novels and computer games. It'll be interesting to see whether Eberron supports all of D&D, novels and computer games - or only one or two of them - successfully. Dragonlance supports only the former, whereas FR seems to manage all three.
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JoeGKushner
First Post
Mongoose just had a post where they noted they've had another increase overall this year.
But they must be lying because the market is dying!
But they must be lying because the market is dying!
The reason I have not been buying many WOTC books lately is they are all the same.
4-6 Prestige Classes
10-12 New Feats
Hand Full of new Spells and Weapons
And that pretty much sums up all the book put out by Wizards. I have been getting some of the FR books because they throw in some regional information as well.
That is why I have backed off my purchases.
4-6 Prestige Classes
10-12 New Feats
Hand Full of new Spells and Weapons
And that pretty much sums up all the book put out by Wizards. I have been getting some of the FR books because they throw in some regional information as well.
That is why I have backed off my purchases.
Numion
First Post
wedgeski said:Them's fighting words, varmint!
Did they really admit that? I thought it was rather that they admitted that Pepsi was usually ranked better in blind taste tests. They also wanted to change their recipe to use cheaper ingredients.
Some have speculated that they could've gotten away with the changes if done gradually over, say, 5-10 years. But I guess this is beside the thread.
John Desmarais
Explorer
JoeGKushner said:Mongoose just had a post where they noted they've had another increase overall this year.
But they must be lying because the market is dying!
An individual company can still do well in a weak market - just like one could do poorly in a strong market - without being in any way indicative of the market as a whole. If Mongoose is doing well, more power to them.
JD
JoeGKushner
First Post
John Desmarais said:
This is true. But since Mongoose isn't the only company doing well, per Wizard's general reports... it's not a single company crying out in the wilderness. This doesn't count sell out products like Serenity, Artesia (at Gen Con), Mutants & Masterminds 3 printings and a second edition (with a sell out at Gen Con), Castles & Crusades sell out or other high profile books that have gone through multiple editions like Warhammer.
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