CORELINE (D20 Modern/D20 BESM Setting).

marcoasalazarm · Mar 12, 2018

Neurohelmets and Robotechnology "thinking caps" (from the Kinney novels, they are kind of similar in use) are close enough in application that Mechwarriors can adapt from one to another. Of course, this means a certain degree of modification on Macross-verse vehicles, but it's less than, say, placing that "motion capture" tech from the G-Gundam series.

Lord Zack · Mar 18, 2018

The Leo is compatible with beam weapons as well, which can penetrate most forms of mobile suit armor and I don't think it would be significantly slower than the Mad Cat, the Zaku.at least is actually slightly faster, but I think the Mad Cat's Composite A-2 Ferro-Fibrous armor would be superior to the Titanium Alloy/Ceramic Composite used by the Leo. Mobile Suits often rely more on manuverability for defense, especially when beam weapons are a factor.

marcoasalazarm · Mar 18, 2018

OK, that sounds good, but the problem becomes... well... if even a Leo is probably better than many other kinds of Mech around, then why would, say, the Draconis Combine just not take all of the guys who want to be Mecha pilots and give them Zakus?

Maybe there is something there like a kind of brand loyalty? Doesn't needs be something that actually affects statistically, but I guess it's a societal thing? Guys within whatever remains of the Inner Sphere are so used to Mechs that they see other kind of designs as an abomination?

There may be something there.... the "Word of Blake Jihad, Second Round: the Battletech Supremacy?"

kronos182 · Mar 20, 2018

marcoasalazarm said:
OK, that sounds good, but the problem becomes... well... if even a Leo is probably better than many other kinds of Mech around, then why would, say, the Draconis Combine just not take all of the guys who want to be Mecha pilots and give them Zakus?

Maybe there is something there like a kind of brand loyalty? Doesn't needs be something that actually affects statistically, but I guess it's a societal thing? Guys within whatever remains of the Inner Sphere are so used to Mechs that they see other kind of designs as an abomination?

There may be something there.... the "Word of Blake Jihad, Second Round: the Battletech Supremacy?"

Reasons to use their own stuff still? Well most battletech mechs have WAY more guns, are usually more customizable, and have various features that mobile suits don't have. How many mobile suits that are built for ground use have jump jets that let them cover hundreds of feet/meters that are not gundams or specialty units? How many can actually spin around the waist to attack an enemy in virtually any direction (can shot at target behind them while retreating is always a nice feature). Plus MORE GUNS AND MISSILES!
Also availability.. how many Clans will have access to mobile suits?

But brand loyalty is also a good reason. Groups like the Clans are fiercely proud of the tech/mech accomplishments if I'm not mistaken..

marcoasalazarm · Mar 20, 2018

OK, those are all good reasons.

Lord Zack · Mar 23, 2018

It's true that most BattleMechs have more guns, though not all. As far as I can tell they don't generally have weapons that can penetrate enemy armor, so this is not an advantage over most forms of mobile suits. They don't need more weapons if they have nore powerful ones. Many mobile suits are quite customizable, there are tons of variants of most common mobile suits. Most mobile suits have thrusters capable of propelling them through the air, not to mention that most can fly either under their own power or through sub-flight systems. A mobile suit can actually turn around much quicker than a BattleMech.

I see the main barriers for the adoption of mobile weapons being logistical and a lack of familiarity with them. Earth's mobile suit production capabilities would not be sufficient to export that many, not to mention maintaining those mobile suits obtained.

kronos182 · Mar 24, 2018

Lord Zack said:
It's true that most BattleMechs have more guns, though not all. As far as I can tell they don't generally have weapons that can penetrate enemy armor, so this is not an advantage over most forms of mobile suits. They don't need more weapons if they have nore powerful ones. Many mobile suits are quite customizable, there are tons of variants of most common mobile suits. Most mobile suits have thrusters capable of propelling them through the air, not to mention that most can fly either under their own power or through sub-flight systems. A mobile suit can actually turn around much quicker than a BattleMech.

I see the main barriers for the adoption of mobile weapons being logistical and a lack of familiarity with them. Earth's mobile suit production capabilities would not be sufficient to export that many, not to mention maintaining those mobile suits obtained.

They don't make weapons that penetrate armour? Have you seen what a PPC can do?! it's a beam weapon, only more primitive to the gundam ones. Shorter range and slower firing rate, but it packs a hell of a punch. Not buster gun level, but at least on part with average beam weapons. Battletech also has gauss or mac weapons if I'm not mistaken.

On the point of variants for mobile suits.. yeah, that does offer customizability.. but only in the sense you have to have room for another mobile suit for a different weapon set, while say an Atlas can have a few different types of weapons in storage that takes up WAY less space than a whole mech.
So there's pros and cons.. depends on your funds, and combat style.

Now.. as to mobile suit mobility/ability.. yes, many do come with thrusters, flight systems, etc, but many of those are geared for space flight, or a few specific suits with a flight attachment as many aren't meant to fly in an atmosphere. Yes, I know there are some that are, but those are usually spec built to fly, or special units. Most are at most jump capable.
The Battletech ability to rotate at the waist in full 360 adds a new dynamic to movement.. you can still advance on your target, or retreat, while being able to shoot in any direction without losing speed or direction of travel where a mobile suit is usually limited to the movement of a human body. I don't recall any mobile suits that rotate at the waist in full circles. Thus when they turn to shoot something behind them, they full bodily turn and lose speed doing so. But over all, yeah, they can move about faster, generally change direction faster, and can side step far easier than a battlemech, but then comes down to environment on which would be better..

Availability.. mobile suits definitely more rare than battlemechs.. gundanium is rare(r).

Lord Zack · Mar 24, 2018

Almost every mobile weapon, except primitive ones or ones in continuties where beam weapons are not common is equipped with at least one beam weapon. I don't think that PPCs are that common. A mobile weapon can be reconfigured from one variant to another, you do not need to build a whole new mobile weapon. The mobile weapons intended for space combat tend to be used in space and those built for ground combat tend to be used on the ground. Sub-flight systems are pretty common, so most mobile suits can fly. Finally Gundarium is rare, yes, but it only appears in one continuity and was only used on a handful of mobile weapons in that continuity. So it's rarity is not a limit on the number of mobile weapons.

I'm not saying that mobile weapons would make BattleMechs useless or anything. But they would be desirable enough that MechWarriors might greatly desire them and they might be overall superior to BattleMechs.

marcoasalazarm · Mar 24, 2018

Mechs have also many versions that are walking artillery platforms. Mobile Suits, because of the Minovsky Particle and having to build to accommodate its restrictions, are mostly reduced to fighting within line of sight of each other.

This is a design feature that has not been changed since the arrival to the Core Timeline. Gundams that strictly specialize in something like ELINT and C&C may be on the drawing board or maybe even on the prototype stage, but haven't rolled out of the factory in any significant numbers.

It's not really a big advantage, but I guess that would allow for a properly created mercenary force to, say, wield a Mongoose Recon 'mech and a Dynames (spotter/sniper team role, perhaps?).

marcoasalazarm · Mar 24, 2018

And before any responses, just trying to write something here that actually gives Battlemechs a reason to be out there and continuing production and stuff, because I know what Gundams can pull off, and if they can be made en masse, then what's the point with 'mechs?

Saw this before. Someone unleashes an Atlas in a story, the Atlas gets demolished in what looks like a "Crowning Moment Of Awesome", someone says later that an Atlas was, of all things, "using kiddie gloves".

I like the Atlas. Seeing it being called that kind of ticked me off. The rant went on forever, but that is one of the things that made my blood boil.