Why are D&D discussions so angry?

diaglo · Jun 7, 2006

ColonelHardisson said:
I have to say I simply don't see it. Yeah, there are plenty of flamewars. Don't get me wrong, I see that. But most end in flamewars? I disagree. But I guess some see it differently. :shrug: (it's too bad the shrug smiley isn't here, by the way. Love that potato-looking thing).

point of fact. i have yet to have someone ask me my opinion about why i love the edition i do and it not turn out badly.

even with me ignoring the obvious trolling. others jump into the mess for or against.

so i have yet to complete a thread on the subject.

i simple just end up saying my usual: OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

b/c that is about as far as can be discussed.

Piratecat · Jun 7, 2006

diaglo said:
i simple just end up saying my usual: OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

With respect, David, if you prefaced that with "I think" I suspect you'd have a lot easier time discussing it.

Like I said up-thread, any time you declare an opinion as a truth, you're going to have problems. Stating it as gospel truth annoys everyone who disagrees with you and makes them more argumentative; stating it as your opinion is unimpeachable, easily accepted, and paves the way to actual discussion.

ColonelHardisson · Jun 7, 2006

diaglo said:
point of fact. i have yet to have someone ask me my opinion about why i love the edition i do and it not turn out badly.

even with me ignoring the obvious trolling. others jump into the mess for or against.

so i have yet to complete a thread on the subject.

i simple just end up saying my usual: OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

b/c that is about as far as can be discussed.

Yes, but that doesn't mean all the threads we're talking about end in flamewars. Plus, really, don't you think that the way you present your argument has a lot to do with that? People have the perception that you are of a certain mindset, and respond to you thusly. I don't recall seeing you saying anywhere when you first began posting "here is why I like this edition of the game, and not this edition." You spent a lot of time posting exactly the kind of things you just posted above, and, in effect, bashing another game. Doesn't matter that after your persona was established that you wanted to try to be reasonable and discuss it civilly; people remembered the established persona and answered in kind.

ThirdWizard · Jun 7, 2006

On the topic of being pointed to other RPGs:

It's worth pointing out that people who say "You should try X" aren't usually saying "Get out of my D&D, freak!" They're saying "Hey, come join us in playing X, its a great game, and I thnk you'll enjoy it too." It's not an excluding thing, its an including thing. When someone recomends something, they generally like it, and they're recommending it because they think others will enjoy it as well.

To many people, RPGs aren't a pick your favorite and only run it type of thing. There are flavors for different types of games. If you want to run horror, or sci-fi, or whatnot, then they change which RPG system they're running. So, when someone mentions that they want to make D&D into X and they've been playing X for years successfully for years under a different system, then of course they're going to recommend that system.

And, when they do, it isn't a put down toward D&D. I know people nowadays are used to hardcore fanboyism, Sony vs. Microsoft vs. Nintendo or Microsoft vs. Macintosh, but you'll find a lot more inclusiveness with roleplayers actually, in my experience at least, with regards to alternate systems than you will with the majority at large with regards to competing systems.

diaglo · Jun 7, 2006

Piratecat said:
With respect, David, if you prefaced that with "I think" I suspect you'd have a lot easier time discussing it.

Like I said up-thread, any time you declare an opinion as a truth, you're going to have problems. Stating it as gospel truth annoys everyone who disagrees with you and makes them more argumentative; stating it as your opinion is unimpeachable, easily accepted, and paves the way to actual discussion.

yeah, i was trying to help big dummy see an example.

green slime · Jun 7, 2006

ColonelHardisson said:
Really? Bugaboo trolled me mercilessly once upon a time, when I was new to the internet and didn't have the acumen to let his nonsense roll like water off a duck's back. I also swear I remember him having a flame-out (here or at an earlier incarnation of Nutkinland), ironically enough, where he petulantly related how he just couldn't take all the meanies who couldn't take a joke. May have been another of his trolls, but it seemed genuine at the time, and I haven't seen him back since.

That's how I remember it is as well. Strange thing though, it got kind of funny once you knew what he was up to, with some of the baiting he did, which could be really well set-up, and it usually only took a page or two for the truth to out.

*sigh*

Guess I just kind of miss some of the oldtimers. Hadn't seen you around for a while either, for that matter....

*peers at CH intently*

But I seriously don't see more flamewars or trolling than in the early days, do you? Nowadays it seems sedate, almost geriatric in comparisson. Everynow and then, something sort of flickers in the distance. Maybe its because I tended to get myself mired in those debates more often. Or maybe because the moderators are doing a better (more draconic?!?) job?

BSF · Jun 7, 2006

diaglo said:
point of fact. i have yet to have someone ask me my opinion about why i love the edition i do and it not turn out badly.

even with me ignoring the obvious trolling. others jump into the mess for or against.

so i have yet to complete a thread on the subject.

i simple just end up saying my usual: OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

b/c that is about as far as can be discussed.

In all fairness diaglo, this is an easier topic to discuss in a more dynamic medium. Such as over [insert beverage of choice] at [location of choice]. As I recall, I asked you why you like OD&D the first time we met and I understand your preference. But seeing your general enthusiasm and body language really helps for that topic.

James Heard · Jun 7, 2006

green slime said:
Maybe its because I tended to get myself mired in those debates more often. Or maybe because the moderators are doing a better (more draconic?!?) job?

Everyone watch out, just a few more levels and they'll get their breath weapons and wings.

Piratecat · Jun 7, 2006

green slime said:
But I seriously don't see more flamewars or trolling than in the early days, do you? Nowadays it seems sedate, almost geriatric in comparisson.... Or maybe because the moderators are doing a better (more draconic?!?) job?

Anyone remember the flamewar over the cover of Relics & Rituals, regarding pagan symbols? Or Son of a Preacherman's thread on fireball pellets?

It doesn't feel to me like the moderation is more draconic. There are more of us, of course, but we seldom need to permanently ban people. I think we've better codified what's okay and what isn't. More importantly, the members know too; I credit Eric Noah with establishing clear, easily memorable guidelines for self-moderation. I really think it's made an inestimable difference in the friendliness here.

The other thing that has changed is our size. I remember when we were one forum, then we went to two with story hours, then three with rules. There's more people around now!

hexgrid · Jun 7, 2006

ThirdWizard said:
On the topic of being pointed to other RPGs:

It's worth pointing out that people who say "You should try X" aren't usually saying "Get out of my D&D, freak!"

It's not always that way, but I have seen this sort of sentiment expressed on these boards. Heck, I remember a while back there was an entire thread questioning why people who aren't fans of 3.x would be posting on enworld at all.