How Would You Defend A Mountain Fortress?

mmadsen

First Post
You must be prepared for commando raids by groups of 15-40 powerful adventurers, as well as raids by enemy cavalry forces, and ultimately--a showdown with an invading Vallorean army composed of 350,000 Legionnaires!
The more I think about it, the more I realize that we're presented with two very different challenges: defend ourselves against the Champions of Vallorea, and defend ourselves against the Vallorean Legions.

The Champions of Vallorea are a commando force, but they aren't simply super-mobile infiltrators; they're also the air support, satellite intelligence, recon, heavy artillery, and armor of Vallorea all rolled into one. They can magically appear anywhere, they can magically spy on anyone anywhere, and they can bring the pain when they show up.

The Vallorean Legions, on the other hand, may have magical support, but they're a conventional force. To get from Point A to Point B, they need to hoof it. To fight and win, they need to arrive en masse.

I can grok the legions, but dealing with dozens of epic-level heroes can get...mind-bending.
 

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Volaran

First Post
Indeed. Perhaps if SHARK were to give us a rundown on these Champions. No doubt they're well enough known that their presence on the battlefield would warrent preparation as well.

Classes, levels, known battle tactics?
 

Agback

Explorer
Zenon said:
A contingent of 12th to 16th level fiends can teleport in, decimate 100 troops and quickly leave with impunity, do so.

A contingent of 12th to 16th level fiends ought to be able to kill more than 10 troops.

Or had you forgotten that 'decimate' means 'kill 10% of'?

Regards,


Agback
 
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Crowe9107

First Post
A high level parties transportation abilities can really mess up the best laid of plans. Here are some things I have come up with.

Teleportation: Given that the majority of your forces are Lawful Evil, Blanketing the Fortress Area with Forbiddance (preferrably a Tenacious Forbiddance so that even it is dispelled it comes back) should give the Forces of Niceness quite a headache, not only blocking any sort of dimensional travel into the fortress, but really boning any low-level good types. It should be noted that this effect is 2-way, ALL dimensional travel is blocked, unless you have a password, for operational security, this password should given only the Commander (for the climatic escape), and teleport and summoning ops should be staged outside of the Forbiddance Zone. Relying on this alone is probably not good enough (or rather smart enough), and all structures should have lead lined walls to prevent scrying (can't TP into an unknown area), which is helpful in and of itself.

Flying: It would appear the forces of goodness will have aerial superiority. Given the (relatively) low hit dice and will saves of hippogriffs and pegasi, I would think stun effects could be wonderfully effective, symbols of stunning, heightened hypnotic patterns, colorsprays, rainbow patterns, sleep, all of these could take mount or rider for a fatal plummet. Magic missiles make for wonderful flak fire, and epic archers can potentially bring down mounts by the score. Conventional Archers generally have a range advantage on casters, combined with Ballista's could make any sort of air insertion pretty rough. A well placed hurricane or such can disrupt an air attack. In any case, make sure AA assets have plenty of cover to hide behind, as Niceness will probably try to soften up LZ and AA sites with spells, mounted archers, dragons, spelljammers and whatever else they can get their goody goody hands on. Also, do not overlook conventional obstacles to hamper landing attempts, caltrops, spikes, spires, spears, dragons teeth (stone pyramids), brambles, barbed wire, obelisks, and anything you think of to disrupt spaces open enough for a large creature to land will be helpful. A key ingredient to any AA network is detection, you can't fight something if you don't know it is inbound, so make sure you are on the ball with intel (keep close tabs on air assets), scrying, patrols (invisible stalkers and air elementals make great air guards, and your chimera and manticore forces can perfom combat air patrol).

More to come,

Carl Rowe
 

Broken Fang

First Post
Hey Shark...some quick thoughts:

1. What does the surrounding countryside look like in regards to the Vallorians (sp?) towns/cities? Use some teleporting baddies to hit them in their cities...either forcing them to pull back some of their troops or pull them from somewhere else.

2. Look for other allies. They probably have more enemies...try to get them to push the attack in other areas. Open up more fronts for them to have to worry about.

3. Get your high level (above 20th) level Wizards and Clerics to start summoning help! Get lots of nasty demons/devils/etc. to smash into the command tents, supplies, etc. Go after supply depots.

4. After working on the supplies sacrifice one of the cities...maybe the furthest away. I know your supposed to hold it but give it up non-the-less. Make sure the food/water has been poisoned or diseased (hopefully someway that is difficult to detect)?

5. Use forbidence or Hollow? Whichever spell it is that allows you to put in place one other spell for a year...dimensional anchor or something large areas of your fortress to prevent intruders from dimension dooring/teleporting in. Have a mighty secure area for you to stage teleports from.

6. How much time do you have to prepare? How many Wizards do you have and how many 4th+ level spells can they throw together a day? You could start polymorphing your generic human troops into hill giants or something. If I were a joe blow human knowing I'm going to war I'd take the spell if it were to increase my chances of survival. Plus if we lose I'm probably dead anyway...if we win it could get reversed.

7. High level Druid is a must.

I'll try to think of more later. But have to go play with the kids. Later.
 


Agback

Explorer
SHARK said:
Well, suppose that you are the commander of a powerful fortress. How would you develop it's defenses? You must be prepared for commando raids by groups of 15-40 powerful adventurers, as well as raids by enemy cavalry forces, and ultimately--a showdown with an invading Vallorean army composed of 350,000 Legionnaires!

The Valloreans are organized into thirty-five Legions, each having 10,000 Legionnaires. The Vallorean army will no doubt have plenty of supplies, engineers, extra equipment, and formidable magical support from enchanted war machines, powerful warrior-clerics, and dreaded wizards. The Valloreans can also expect to have various contingents of elves, dwarves, halflings, as well as other races and beings, including some ogres and small units of Cloud-Giants.

Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.

That concentration of troops cannot possibly survive by foraging, but I'll scorch the earth just in case. Then, 350,000 legionaires will require a minimum of 700,000 pounds (over 312 tons) of food per day, probably more. (If I poison a few wells and rivers they'll need 3,500,000 pounds of water per day as well). And that's without allowing for the auxiliaries and camp followers. Or munitions, for that matter.

Before the Valloreans can attack they are going to assemble huge stockpiles of food. Grain silos explode very nicely once you set them on fire, and Bacillus botulinus flourishes nicely in meat and preserved vegetables.

One day's supplies for the legionnaires alone is about sixty waggon-loads. And even along roads waggons move only about eight miles per day. Once the Vallorean army is 100 miles from its food dumps that means a 25-day round trip for each waggon: they will need 1500 waggons, teams of oxen or mules, drivers: plus supplies for all that livestock. How well can they defend all those waggons and bullocks on the open road?

I abandon my fortress, fall back before the advancing Vallorean army, scorching the earth as I go. My supply lines get shorter and shorter, his get longer and longer. I send werewolves and high-level parties to destroy his supplies and kill his mules and bullocks. Eventually his supply fails. I wait for his troops to get hungry, and then counter-attack.

That's how Wellington beat Napoleon's marshals in Spain, and how Kutuzov beat Napoleon himself in Russia.


ECONOMIC WARFARE AGAINST WIZARDS AND CLERICS

If is important to prevent enemy spellcasters from taking advantage of the months leading up to the assault to stock up on scrolls, potions, magical weapons, and wondrous items. So we stage surprise commando attacks against these people and their workshops and chapels. We raid stockpiles of potions, scrolls, wands, and magical arrows. We make nuisance attacks so that if thse things be distributed widely the sergeants and medics will use them up before the main event (troops are lavish in their use of cure potions, restorations, cure diseases in 'peace'time and in the homeland). It might well be a good idea to concentrate on frightfulness in these raids to sap enemy morale.

Think of assassinating clerics as being like submarine warfare against Britain.

The enemy will be depending heavily on clerics to deal with diseases, level drains, and so forth. But he can't have many who can cast restoration, resurrection, and the like. We ought to identify and target those who can. A program of assassinations against high-level clerics should cut down drastically on the enemy's ability to cast Resurrection, Restoration, Remove Curse, &c.. Then that remaining ability can be overwhelmed by a broad campaign of assassinations, level drains, and infection with vampirism, lycanthropy, and other diseases throughout enemy territory. If we can pull this off, the enemy is going to have to let some important people lose levels, lose some almost-important people altogether, and kill a few of his own people himself. With any luck we can make a substantial numbe of his clerics themselves died permanently or for the duration, or lose enough levels that they can't cast the crucial spells. Once you can shake his people's confidence in being raised, restored, and cured or disease, having their limbs regrown you can produce the impression that invading your country will be (for the troops involved) worse than death.


OTHER THOUGHTS

It is probably important to our plan of campaign to let the enemy concentrate his army so that we can starve it without destroying too much of our own territory. But if we wanted to keep it spread out we could do so by threatening raids-in-force over scattered territories and by fomenting rebellions. Our ideal would probably be to let him concentrate the grunts but force him to spread out the high-level stiffeners. We might accomplish this by staging widespread raids of a nature that high-level heros are needed to cope with them, but of which grunts are of little use. Invasions by pairs and trios of vampire-spawn sound like about the right speed.

The high mobility of some of our forces and their high destructive output makes it attractive to think in terms of attacking mills, bridges, ships, irrigation and drainage canals, and other vital assets. It ought also to be possible to spread murrains among his livestock, blights in his crops, etc. Cut down his agricultural surplus and watch his whole empire fall apart.

If we have members of the right races among our people, it might be possible to use their weakness against the enemy. Starving troops, anybody's starving troops, will rob and kill peasants. And the enemy paladins, being racist pigs, probably wouldn't might butchering goblin and orc peasants. But if we leave a few human or halfing peasants with food in the scorched zone it might be possible to induce fighting between enemy paladins and his general troops.

As always, plan to make fighting horrific and surrender attractive. If any enemy troops surrender they ought to be disarmed, given a meal, lectured on how wicked they are to invade their neighbours' country, held overnight, and then released unharmed to eat enemy supplies and to spread the news that their comrades need not fight to the death, fate worse than death, etc. On the other hand, it is probably a good idea to tell our troops that the enemy are merciless racists intent on exterminating our kind, and that nothing can be hoped for by surrendering.

Regards,


Agback
 

Zenon

First Post
Re: Re: How Would You Defend A Mountain Fortress?

Agback said:
A contingent of 12th to 16th level fiends ought to be able to kill more than 10 troops.

Or had you forgotten that 'decimate' means 'kill 10% of'?

First of all, the quote says 100, not 10. Or hadn't you read it?

And secondly, I am using the word 'decimate' as in the 3b definition from Webster's dictionary:

Main Entry: dec·i·mate
Pronunciation: 'de-s&-"mAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -mat·ed; -mat·ing
Etymology: Latin decimatus, past participle of decimare, from decimus tenth, from decem ten
Date: 1660
1 : to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2 : to exact a tax of 10 percent from <poor as a decimated Cavalier -- John Dryden>
3 a : to reduce drastically especially in number <cholera decimated the population> b : to destroy a large part of <firebombs decimated large sections of the city>

The example that I'm making is that you can apply a huge concentration of force, pop in and wipe out 100 troops with ease (and most likely do it in a round or two) and be gone before their high level quick reaction forces can reply.

Do this twice per day per force if possible, at random times.

This incurs losses of 200 men a day, 1400 a week, 5600 a month per force like this you send out.

If you can field ten forces like this, then the losses equal 56,000 men a month, approximately 6% of the legion. With the unit losses spread out, the legion will begin to lose coheision and coordination. Morale will plummet as each man wonders when he'll be next. And that's just after one month of this. Six months would be around 40% losses, which I believe is considered catastrophic losses by most armies (?). If the timeframe is too long, up the amount of forces used or the number of times per day they are sent out. This is in return for next to no losses in return. Granted, there is always the chance to accidentally run into a high level person who many inflict a loss or two in the time you're on target.

Agback said:
Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.

Very true.

Agback said:
Think of assassinating clerics as being like submarine warfare against Britain.

I assume you mean "unrestricted submarine warfare" against merchant shipping, which brought Britian to it's knees in WWI, and almost took them out of the war due to it's effects.

Agback said:
As always, plan to make fighting horrific and surrender attractive. If any enemy troops surrender they ought to be disarmed, given a meal, lectured on how wicked they are to invade their neighbours' country, held overnight, and then released unharmed to eat enemy supplies and to spread the news that their comrades need not fight to the death, fate worse than death, etc. On the other hand, it is probably a good idea to tell our troops that the enemy are merciless racists intent on exterminating our kind, and that nothing can be hoped for by surrendering.

This one is so nice that I wish I thought of it! The Valloreans wouldn't believe that their own troops were treated nicely and released unharmed! They'd expend so many resources attempting to determine what was done and if they could trust these troops again....the only thing you might want to add to this is some that have been "tampered with", just to throw suspicion on the whole lot of them. The massive waste of manpower guarding, analyzing, etc would be worth it. They also wouldn't be able to "trust" them in battle. Oh, that's beautiful!

My hat is off to you, sir!
 
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Numion

First Post
As the commander I'd prepare ... NOTHING. But as the legions come I'd just say "Chill, I'll handle this CRAP". Guitar would start to wail in the background, HARD ... oops, wrong boards. ;)

About the logistics: Wouldn't vallorean clerics be able to Create Food and Water? Support would be very hard if done, as someone said, with 1500 wagons.

Very expensive solution could be either bags of holding, or the teleportation rings.
 

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