LA for Elementals?

Are there any estimates out there for the LA for medium or large elementals? The base HD in the MM is 4 and 8, respectively, but they aren't considered good PC candidates I guess, because I see no LAs listed.

Comparing the ability score benefits and special abilities with some others I would give the medium version LA 3 and the large LA 4.

Any other ideas?

A good rule of thumb is that ECL = 1.5x CR. It's not perfect, but it works in the vast majority of cases. Dragons being the notable exception, which are really worth about 2x CR.

Medium Fire elementals are CR 3, but they have 4 HD. 3 x 1.5 = 4.5. So either round down and say that the LA = 0 (but make sure to keep the racial HD), or round up and say LA = +1.

Large fire elementals are CR 5 with 8 HD. 5 x 1.5 = 7.5, so the LA would very likely be 0 here.

It seems that elemental HD is worth about the same as PC class HD.

A more rigorous, systematic approach using U_K's ECL document (v5), Medium Fire elementals have an ECL somewhere between 4-5, and Large Fire elementals have an ECL between 8 and 10. So the 1.5x rule works out pretty close.

Thanks. I had never before seen the x1.5 rule-of-thumb. I had pegged the LA higher because of abilities like stonemeld and flight, but I appreciate different opinions.

Let’s look at what a medium earth elemental gets.


• Str +10, Dex -2, Con +6, Int -6
• +9 natural armor
• Slam attack for 1d8 damage
• Earth mastery (+1 attack and damage in most situations)
• Push (essentially a lesser version of Improved Bullrush)
• Earth Glide (free movement through earth and stone)
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
• Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
• Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.
• Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe.


To state that this template/race should be have ECL +0 is ludicrous, it is a melee characters wet dream set of abilities. Enormous strength and constitution bonus combined with immunity to a broad range of effects, attacks and conditions.

ECL’s have to be reasonably balanced for the most powerful class choice (in this case fighter or Barbarian). If used without monstrous HD I would say at least ECL +4, with the 4 racial HD I would perhaps agree to ECL +3.

monboesen said:

ECL’s have to be reasonably balanced for the most powerful class choice (in this case fighter or Barbarian). If used without monstrous HD I would say at least ECL +4, with the 4 racial HD I would perhaps agree to ECL +3.

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I'm looking at these for a "one-off" fun night where each of the players picks a monster race to play for a special mission to destroy a BBEG, probably a great wyrm of some sort. Balance issues in this case are less critical because there is less long-term damage if I am wrong, but I did think that (in the example above) the ability to walk through cave walls to peek on the other side might be worth at least a level or two. Add in the ability scores and that seals the deal for me.

I always use racial hit dice for NPCs and assumes the PCs would be the same, I haven't seen any reason not to do so. I'm going to aim for a ECL (14, say) and bump up the monsters with lower (natural) ECLs with PC levels.

Man, playing a earth elemental rogue sneak attacking from below would be neat. Sometimes I hate being DM. Except now I have the idea for later rat-bastard DM use.

A net +8 ability scores, a net +8 AC, immunities and spiffy moving through earth. Fun for Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues, Paladins and everybody else that isn't Int based.

On the down side you'll generally only get 1 skill point per level, you have to eat the four elemental hit dice and you can't be resurrected until high levels.

So, a level adjustment of +2 or +3 sounds about right. Given the price of equipment for non-humans, a +2 is the highest I'd go.
This assumes that an earth elemental PC is just as good as a properly kitted sixth level fighter or barbarian. Given that the elemental will have 30 to 40 hp (max of 60 with an 18 con before adjustments) and an AC of about 23 versus a sixth level human fighter's 50 to 60 hp (max of 84 with 18 con) and an AC of about 26. The human is tougher but the elemental will have a slightly better attack bonus with fewer attacks and higher damage but again with only one attack.

So a very balanced LA for a medium earth elemental would be +2. If you want the elemental player to feel cool then go with a +1 LA.

Well, according to Races of Stone (page 162), a Small Earth Elemental has an ECL of 5th, and consequently a reverse-engineered LA of +3 (ECL 5 - 2 HD = LA +3). A Medium Earth Elemental has an ECL of 8th (4 HD, LA +4), and a Large Earth Elemental has an ECL of 13th (8 HD, LA +5).

Granted, these are for the purpose of the Leadership feat (i.e. cohort only), but at least it's a starting point.