Have you as DM ever decided a module goes too far? (Possible module spoilers)

I remember a while ago on the old Web RPG forums about a guy who initially ran the Slave Lords supermodule, having all four modules in a single booklet. This guy read through the text, which apparently had the players getting captured in deus ex machina manner, and then the text explicitly said that the Slave Lords and their minions would deliberately go out of their way to destroy keepsakes, heirlooms, and other things especially dear to the PCs, without their even getting a chance to save the things they cherished. The guy immediately called foul, and overrode the module and did things his own way.

As a result, my question is this: Has there ever been a time where a module goes too far in the difficulty, unfairness, deus ex machina, or utter cheapness that you as DM overrule it and adjust things for the PCs' benefit? What was it that ticked you off? And what did you do to fix it?

Another example I've personally seen is a sequence in the third Dragonlance module, the one where the players are leading the refugees through the plains south of Pax Tharkas, before entering Skullcap to find a way to the Dwarfgate and Thorbardin:

At one point, the players can reach a valley over which a large bridge used by the Dwarfkings in days of old used to hang. Fizban the Fabulous casts a spell to create a bridge across the gap...and then it collapses, causing a massive avalanche and landslide that can seriously hurt the PCs, and kill a number of refugees and their supplies. If Fizban isn't with the party, the DM is instructed to have him show up right before they get to the valley.

My first reaction on reading this was one of shock. If Fizban is supposed to be the god of good, what possible reason would he have for seriously harming his chosen champions and killing innocent people?!? How are the PCs supposed to trust him after this? If I were one of those players, my first instinct would be to tear the old crank limb from limb for that crazy stunt, and there'd be no way I'd ever trust him again. Moreover, there's no way for the players to stop him.

At this point, I as DM would cry foul and overrule the module. There'd just be a valley, with no way to cross, and Fizban wouldn't do anything so stupid. The players would have to find another way south. Fizban, in both the modules and novels, seems to be a walking deus ex machina anyway, so I wouldn't use him that much anyway.

Another, more general example would be monsters who have the ability to steal memorized spells right out of their foes' minds, as this one lich can do in the 3E FR sourcebook. Again, I would cry foul; there's no way I'd let a player research that kind of spell, so what makes this guy think he can do it? There's no way a magic-user, PC or NPC, can have memorized spells stolen out of their minds and used against them-I don't consider that using clever tactics, I just consider that a cheap cop-out unfair to the PCs. Again, I'd erase that ability.

Any other examples?

It's worth remembering that the Slave Lords series was originally designed for tournament use. So there's some funky things in there like that. One of the modules also calls for the villains to resurrect the PCs if any of them have been killed!

I've heard that the Dragonlance modules are particularly bad in this regard (I've never read them). The common term seems to be "railroading."

I'm with Delver. I rarely run a published adventure exactly as is, and fair amount of changes have to do with stuff that screws over the party unfairly. Surprise deathtraps are the worst.

Agamon said:

I'm with Delver. I rarely run a published adventure exactly as is, and fair amount of changes have to do with stuff that screws over the party unfairly. Surprise deathtraps are the worst.

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Depends on the surprise. And the deathtrap. :>

But generally, yeah, all modules require tweaking. Some more than others. And Dragonlance issome are bad to the point that all you can do is go..."Hey. Neat maps."

In the end, I didn't run the capture in Sourge of the Slavelords either. It just didn't fit in quite right with the way the campaign was developing. But had it developed differently, sure, I would have done it.
By the way, really decent or unusual items would have been kept for potential liberation. And they would have befriended a number of fellow slaves who would have been able to help them later... had it developed.
The only real reservation I had with it was the deus ex machina way of carrying it out. That didn't seem quite cricket. But the capture and loss of stuff, done fairly, would certainly be OK. I did end up schooling them badly at the end of the A3 segment and threw them in the dungeons. Boy were they hopping for revenge!

CruelSummerLord said:

I remember a while ago on the old Web RPG forums about a guy who initially ran the Slave Lords supermodule, having all four modules in a single booklet. This guy read through the text, which apparently had the players getting captured in deus ex machina manner, and then the text explicitly said that the Slave Lords and their minions would deliberately go out of their way to destroy keepsakes, heirlooms, and other things especially dear to the PCs, without their even getting a chance to save the things they cherished. The guy immediately called foul, and overrode the module and did things his own way.

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I ran a campaign recently that was adapted from the Slave Lords modules (I created my own maps and encounters loosely based on the themes and monsters presented in the modules) and one of the hardest parts was figuring out what to do with that deus ex machina capture of the party. I wanted to keep a section of the adventure that consisted of the party wandering in a dungeon with no equipment after being captured, so I didn't want to just remove it, but I need to figure out a way to make it work for the players.

First, I felt that I had to come up with a way to capture the party fairly rather than simply saying by fiat that they are captured. Second, I had to figure out a way to keep the players from crying foul over what was clearly going to be some railroading to set things up.

My solution was to first engineer an overkill trap that would be sure to capture everyone in the party. It had to allow the party to be captured and then allow them to barely escape into the dungeon rather than fighting their way out. The villains of the campaign were not so stupid as to simply toss the party down into a dungeon alive. I knew they had to stumble down there themselves as part of an escape.

The trap relied on Symbols of Weakness, which had the added benefit of discouraging them from trying to fight their way out of the villain's lair instead of escaping into the dungeon. That whole part worked well, even though one character nearly saved their way out of the trap. Since the trap worked by the rules, the players believed that the capture was plausible.

The second part, getting the players to swallow the railroad, became easier once the party started using divinations for direction and guidance. I simply gave them a divination result that essentially said, "Go into the bad guy's lair. Yes you'll be captured, but don't despair." This shifted the railroad from feeling like the capture was DM fiat to feeling like it was part of the characters' destiny. The comments that came out of that divination were great, from the ex-Paladin crying out "Don't despair!" as things looked grim during the capture to the Halfling Ranger saying, "I'm despairing!" as they took his magical bow away and the Druid also saying, "I'm despairing!" when they put the chainmail shirt on him to stop his shape changing and casting.

Ultimately, that whole part of the campaign worked out well and the players enjoyed it. So my point here is that sometimes you can make the worst elements of a module palatable to players if you can figure out how to make the element make sense within the rules and prepare the players for it by giving them some sort of warning that its coming and is part of their destiny. Giving the players clues that there is a death trap ahead, as others have suggested, is another variation of this theme.

The Hackmaster version of the Slavers modules has a pretty funny section on what to do when players complain about the deus ex machina capture.

thedungeondelver said:

Depends on the surprise. And the deathtrap. :>

But generally, yeah, all modules require tweaking. Some more than others. And Dragonlance issome are bad to the point that all you can do is go..."Hey. Neat maps."

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LOL. Yeah. Nice novels, but I wouldn't want to adventure there.

(Not to rag on the setting, just those mods...)

Agamon said:

LOL. Yeah. Nice novels, but I wouldn't want to adventure there.

(Not to rag on the setting, just those mods...)

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Heheheh, and here I always thought the storyline presented by the modules was better than the one written by Weis and Hickman. They essentially turned Riverwind and Goldmoon into ballast, killed Flint for absolutely no reason...

...but I digress. I'm just saying that, if all the characters were given equal "screen time" and not have some of them pushed into the background, and incorporated more stuff from the modules, I think it could have been done a lot better.

Ah well.

I must compliment John Morrow on how he tweaked the various parts of the Slave Lords module, although I wonder whether it wouldn't be possible to, instead of being captured without a chance to escape, make the players the victims of a hellish cat-and-mouse game when, either after defeating some of the Slave Lords or finding themselves overmatched, they run like hell and end up having to fight the Slave Lords on the run. They still have all their equipment and magical gear...although their resources are depleted and whether they have time to rest and recover their spells, hit points and supplies is another matter entirely.

Screw making the mice run through a maze...there are a few very powerful cats that want to clean their claws...

Agamon said:

LOL. Yeah. Nice novels, but I wouldn't want to adventure there.

(Not to rag on the setting, just those mods...)

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We are in the process of substantially revising them. I think the current version of Dragons of Autumn (the first four modules, repackaged and rewritten for 3.5) is a much better implementation than earlier ones, especially with the added flexibility worked into it that allows for a little more diversion from the storyline without eliminating it.

Cheers,
Cam