Magic Shield's "Bashing" Ability [Vetoed]

I propose a modification (an errata, actually) to the magical Bashing ability of shields.

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Bashing
A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield also gains a +1 weapon enhancement, to be applied when used for a shield bash. This functions exactly as if the shield were a +1 magic weapon (so improving it to +2 would cost 6000gp). (Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull’s strength; Price +1 bonus.
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This is based on two arguments:

1st) When upgrading a +1 shield to a +1 shield of bashing, you pay 3000gp. I argue that the damage die increase is worth 1000gp and the weapon enhancement bonus is worth 2000gp, and that the weapon enhancement bonus should thus be exactly the same as enchanting the weapon with a +1 bonus since it costs exactly the same amount.

2nd) The text, as is, says "The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash." Which, when interpreted literally, means that even if you spent 50,000gp on getting a +5 weapon enhancement on the shield, the shield still "acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash", which is absurd.


[sblock=Alternate Form: ]If you strongly disagree with the 1st argument, at least consider this revision which deals only with the 2nd argument:

Bashing
A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield also gains a +1 weapon enhancement, to be applied when used for a shield bash. This does not stack with any weapon enhancement on the shield, only the higher bonus applies. (Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull’s strength; Price +1 bonus.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Original Text, from SRD]

SRD said:

Bashing
A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. (Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.)

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull’s strength; Price +1 bonus.

Click to expand...

[/sblock]

Why making thing complicated when you can do things more simple...

SRD said:

Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel
You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

Wooden or Steel
Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to special attacks.

Shield Bash Attacks
You can bash an opponent with a light shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a light shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a light shield as a light weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

Shield Spikes
When added to your shield, these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon that increases the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. You can’t put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.

An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

Click to expand...

The only question is: can you enchant a shield as both a weapon and an armor?

Velmont said:

The only question is: can you enchant a shield as both a weapon and an armor?

Click to expand...

Absolutely, the answer is yes.

SRD said:

Shields

Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. The bashing special ability, however, does grant a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.

Click to expand...

I realize that a shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right, I'm not arguing that at all. I like the Bashing ability because it increases the damage type on the shield. I want to be able to have the Bashing ability, but also have the shield able to be improved upon later, with higher weapon enhancement bonuses and more magical weapon abilities, like Flaming Burst. The way Bashing is written, it doesn't allow for that kind of improvement, unintentionally in my opinion.

Another option is to make Bashing a magical weapon ability instead of a magical armor ability, modifying it some to make up for the huge difference in cost (weapon enhancements cost twice as much).

Weapon enchantement sound good to me.

Compare to flameburst, for example, it is worst in term of damage (1d4 to 1d8 instead of +1d6), but not that much, as the damage are not elemental. It is a lot easier to have elemental resistamce then damage reduction, and generally, damage reduction is not strong enough to suck all the damage (talking of X/-) or can be overridden with the good spell (align weapon) or the good material.

Overrall, I think ti could stay like that and it would still be an interesting option.

I think if it's made to be a weapon enchantment, it should improve, not degrade in power. As a weapon enchantment, even +1, you're paying 6000gp, compared to 3000gp for the armor enchantment. And in this new version, the +1 enhancement bonus is dropped. Like I said before, I don't think that the increase in damage die type is worth too much. My reasoning is that shields have crummy damage as bash weapons (1d3 for a light shield). Spiked shields are slightly better (1d4, woo hoo!), so the Bashing ability makes it a viable weapon choice (1d8) and then gives it a weapon enhancement, the true cost of the enchantment. I think if Bashing is turned into a weapon enchantment, it needs something to offset the loss of the enhancement bonus, though exactly what, I don't know.

Increasing the damage die again (to 1d10 for a spiked shield?!) starts to make things a little ridiculous. Maybe adding another damage die instead of changing the damage die type, like +1d6? One thing to remember is that the Bashing ability as a weapon enhancement would only be for shields, which have poor damage.

If nobody has any comments, can the judges vote on this?

Actually, increasing the die again from 1d8 goes up to 2d6. Also, 1000 is way underpriced for two damage die increases. I like it the way it is--you pay a +1 armour enhancement, you get a +1 weapon enhancement and two size increases, but if you want to enhance it more as a weapon, you start from scratch. The difference between your proposal and RAW is that in yours you save 2000 GP because you don't have to enchant the redundant +1 for the weapon that doesn't stack. I want the player to have to pay that extra 2000 GP for the privilege, since IMO they're still getting a massive bargain--they should be forced to pay for those damage dice increases out of their weapon enhancements (which would cost much more) since it is purely a weapon ability. I vote NO. If you wanted to propose allowing Bashing as a Weapon Enhancement for shields at +1, I'd definitely allow it.

You have a valid point, and I accept your judgment for Proposal 1.

However, the way the ability is currently written in the SRD, you can't upgrade it as a weapon if you give it the Bashing ability, because it always "acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash". You think the weapon enhancement should be redundant and not stackable, but possible to obtain for a substantial sum, correct? So take a look at the alternate form, in the sblock.

NO

I agree with RA on just about every point. I think that the shield ability, as is, is balanced, and breaking it up would only allow for abuse. Particularly because you're using the armor bonus (which is half as much) to do the work of a shield.

As for your eratta, it's irrelevent. You always use the best modifier. So if you enchant it with a +3 weapon bonus, you ignore the +1 part.