D&D/Saga Edition: Spellcasters?

Good Morning, All,

I am considering the suggestion a few people have made on the boards of running a D&D campaign heavily influenced by the rules found in the new Star Wars Saga Edition core rules (SECR) that is coming out later this month. Thanks to Grim Tales and Unearthed Arcana, I can easily port a lot of the core class abilities into talent trees, so I'm not too worried about that aspect of things. However, the one item that boggles me is spellcasting. While I could use the Grim Tales version of spellcasting, I find that not using spell slots causes me problems in finding gamers willing to play. (It's just too different for some without that "sacred cow".)

Caveat: I do not want to use Advanced Classes or Prestige Classes. Grim Tales has definitely taught me the blessings of avoiding these additional complications. Any suggestions along these lines will politefully be declined for consideration.

Thought #1: I could take the spell advancement table from the Mage and Acolyte classes, and turn each level into a separate talent in talent trees for Arcane/Divine Spellcasting. This effectively halves the magic progress of characters, and limits them to 5th level spells as a maximum, but with incantations from D20 Modern/Unearthed Arcana, I can introduce 6th level and higher spells as rituals to be learned along the way. This allows me to control the presence of higher level magics in the game, making rituals like this as adventure goals and story hooks, and keeps spells in the "sweet spot" for the duration of the campaign, but the advancement rate would be an issue for many players, I think.

Thought #2: I could create a table for spell advancement that is based on class level, like normal, and then make very weak talent trees in comparison to those given to the fighter and rogue archetype classes. That seems a little lame to me, and harder to create or balance, but it allows somewhat standard magic advancement for the diehards that prefer advancement on a level-by-level basis.

I really prefer Thought #1, but I don't think players would like it. What do you guys think? Does anyone have any other suggestions on how one could implement a wizard or cleric under the SECR/D20 Modern/Grim Tales class structure (alternating talents and bonus feats every other level)?

Thanks in advance for your time,
Flynn

Check out what I found on the WotC boards (I'm quoting):



I originally posted this in the "What's a DM to do?" board and realized it really belongs here...

So, considering I really like the ToB system, I began to think about what would happen if you made the magic system be along the same vein. Obviously some spells would need some HEAVY rebalancing, but I think you could do some great stuff with it.

You're welcome to give opinions, ideas, yell at me, etc. I welcome all critisisim.

Auras obviously need to be created from some of the existing spells to make that part work. I'm working on a spell list/aura list with rebalancing to account for this system.

As an example, the following base classes (WIP):

Arcane Sage

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4.
Class Skills: The arcane sage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

The Arcane Sage
Code:
Base
Attack Fort Ref Will Spells Spells Caster
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Known Readied Level
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Summon Familiar, 6 4 1
Scribe Scroll
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 7 4 2
3 +1 +1 +1 +4 8 5 3
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 9 5 4
5 +2 +1 +1 +5 Bonus Feat 10 6 5
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 11 6 6
7 +3 +2 +2 +6 12 6 7
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 13 7 8
9 +4 +3 +3 +7 14 7 9
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus Feat 15 8 10
11 +5 +3 +3 +8 16 8 11
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 17 8 12
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +9 18 9 13
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 19 9 14
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Bonus Feat 20 10 15
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 21 10 16
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +11 22 10 17
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 23 11 18
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +12 24 11 19
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus Feat 25 12 20
Bonus Feats: At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, an arcane sage gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, she can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery. The arcane sage must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The arcane sage is not limited to the categories of item creation feats, metamagic feats, or Spell Mastery when choosing these feats.

Spells: An arcane sage may pick spells from any of the arcane schools when he recieves a new spell. Spells have the following prerequisites for an arcane sage:
Code:
Level Prerequisite Required Caster Level
------------------------------------------------------------
0 None 1
1 1 Spell of that school 1
2 2 Spells of that school 3
3 3 Spells of that school 5
4 4 Spells of that school 7
5 5 Spells of that school 9
6 6 Spells of that school 11
7 7 Spells of that school 13
8 8 Spells of that school 15
9 9 Spells of that school 17
As with manuvers, only 1 copy of a spell may be readied at any given time. An At 4th level and every even level thereafter, an arcane savant may trade out one of his spells known for a new spell of any level he has access to. In order to ready spells, the arcane sage must spend five minutes reading his spellbook and going over arcane formulae. If he does not have his spellbook, the arcane sage is stuck with the spells he already has ready.

Arcane Savant

All abilities as a sorcerer with the exception of spellcasting.

Spells Known/Readied
Code:
Level Spells Known Spells Readied Caster Level
-------------------------------------------------
1 3 3 1
2 3 3 2
3 4 3 3
4 4 4 4
5 5 4 5
6 5 4 6
7 6 5 7
8 6 5 8
9 7 5 9
10 7 6 10
11 8 6 11
12 8 6 12
13 9 7 13
14 9 7 14
15 10 7 15
16 10 8 16
17 11 8 17
18 11 8 18
19 12 9 19
20 12 9 20
Spells Known:

An arcane savant may pick spells from any of the arcane schools when he recieves a new spell. Spells have the following prerequisites:
Code:
Level Prerequisite Required Caster Level
------------------------------------------------------------
0 None 1
1 1 Spell of that school 1
2 1 Spells of that school 3
3 2 Spells of that school 5
4 2 Spells of that school 7
5 3 Spells of that school 9
6 3 Spells of that school 11
7 4 Spells of that school 13
8 4 Spells of that school 15
9 5 Spells of that school 17
As with manuvers, only 1 copy of a spell may be readied at any given time. In order to ready spells, the arcane savant must spend 5 minutes practicing with magical energy and focusing his will. He must remain in one place in an area of at least moderate quiet.

At 4th level and every even level thereafter, an arcane savant may trade out one of his spells known for a new spell of any level he has access to.

Sorry, the format came out like crap, so here is a direct link:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=827798

Surround your table text with code tags, and you can preserve the layout of your tables.

Okay, I haven't been keeping up with the multitudes of 3.5 supplements after the first wave of Complete This-And-That splatbooks. What does ToB stand for? This may have potential.

Thanks,
Flynn

Flynn said:

What does ToB stand for?

Click to expand...

Tome of Battle.

The mechanics are designed/balanced around "per encounter", instead of the assumed "4 encounters a day" malarkey.

This is definitely the direction Star Wars: Saga Edition (force powers) is going, and I suspect 4th edition will follow.