Dragonfire adept help with Draconic Claw

Arr matey and hodihoo chachos!

Ready to sail into the sunset before pirates of the carribean sets sail. My current pirate group has a small rules problem (CAW!) and I'd wager I need help.

One of the chars is a dragonfire adept from Dragon Magic. She/He/It has the Draconic Claw feat, e.g. claws and it's able to make a claw attack while casting... which I allowed to be used in conjunction with the dragonfire adepts breath weapon, btw would this be by the rules? I'm a little weak at warlocks and similar things concerning invocations.

Now the real question: It has claws. Can it attack with two of them? If not, is there a feat or anything else that allows it? If it has two claw attacks, two attacks are made at which penalties (I'm pretty sure none, right matey)? And which feats might be taken to improve the claws (even though the char isn't a melee monster)? I was thinking about letting her take the feat once more for a second attack... yet this whole class and most dragon feats sounds pretty weirdo to me. Ah well and does Draconic Toughness grant one or two hp per draconic feat?

The text of the claw feat (somehow the book disappeared after the session and the owner is currently looking for it) said something like you gain a claw attack... not two.

Darklone said:

One of the chars is a dragonfire adept from Dragon Magic. She/He/It has the Draconic Claw feat, e.g. claws and it's able to make a claw attack while casting... which I allowed to be used in conjunction with the dragonfire adepts breath weapon, btw would this be by the rules?

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How does the character have the feat? It requires Draconic Heritage, which itself requires at least one level in sorcerer... Note that some of the draconic feats, generally the ones that have a 'special effect while spellcasting' clause, have Draconic Heritage as a prerequisite, while others only require the dragonblood subtype (which Draconic Heritage gives, or which you can get through other means, like being a dragonborn of Bahamut or a spellscale, or having Dragontouched--which is a bonus feat for dragonfire adepts).

The claw attack is separate from needing to spellcast, incidentally, though I know what you're referring to - "In any round when you cast a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action, you can make a single claw attack as a swift action (see page 86) against an opponent you threaten."

The dragonfire adept wouldn't be able to use this along with its breath weapon, as that isn't a spell... neither are its invocations, which makes this feat relatively worthless for them by the RAW. (Just getting a natural weapon isn't that useful on its own, really...)

Darklone said:

Now the real question: It has claws. Can it attack with two of them?

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Ambiguous by the RAW ("You can make a natural attack with your claw, dealing damage based on your size..."), but the intent seems to be that only one natural attack is given, not two.

Darklone said:

If not, is there a feat or anything else that allows it?

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I think there's a feat in Draconomicon that does something like this (giving an extra natural weapon attack), but I can't recall the name.

Darklone said:

And which feats might be taken to improve the claws (even though the char isn't a melee monster)?

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Improved Natural Attack from the Monster Manual, which would increase the damage for a Medium character from d6 to d8. Not really that worth it.

darklone said:

Ah well and does Draconic Toughness grant one or two hp per draconic feat.

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2. Note that that's another of the ones that requires having Draconic Heritage and thus a sorcerer level, though.

sukael said:

How does the character have the feat? It requires Draconic Heritage, which itself requires at least one level in sorcerer... Note that some of the draconic feats, generally the ones that have a 'special effect while spellcasting' clause, have Draconic Heritage as a prerequisite, while others only require the dragonblood subtype (which Draconic Heritage gives, or which you can get through other means, like being a dragonborn of Bahamut or a spellscale, or having Dragontouched--which is a bonus feat for dragonfire adepts).

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Yeah, dragontouched counts as being sorcerer, so it took Draconic Heritage...

The claw attack is separate from needing to spellcast, incidentally, though I know what you're referring to - "In any round when you cast a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action, you can make a single claw attack as a swift action (see page 86) against an opponent you threaten."

The dragonfire adept wouldn't be able to use this along with its breath weapon, as that isn't a spell... neither are its invocations, which makes this feat relatively worthless for them by the RAW. (Just getting a natural weapon isn't that useful on its own, really...)

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Yupp, but considering the worst BAB I didn't think a single claw attack hurts and it has certainly more style to claw and breathe than to cast and slash.

Ambiguous by the RAW ("You can make a natural attack with your claw, dealing damage based on your size..."), but the intent seems to be that only one natural attack is given, not two.

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That's what I thought and it seems to be pretty strange ...

I think there's a feat in Draconomicon that does something like this (giving an extra natural weapon attack), but I can't recall the name.

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Thanks, I'll check that.

Well: Found no monster in the MM 1 with claws and only one attack... so that did it for me and I gave it two normal claw attacks.

That Draconomicon feat gives iterative attacks with natural weapons... NASTY.

Darklone said:

Yupp, but considering the worst BAB I didn't think a single claw attack hurts and it has certainly more style to claw and breathe than to cast and slash.

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Yeah - it's probably fairly safe to let the character use draconic feats in combination with invocations instead of spellcasting, but watch out for ones like Draconic Vigor (heal a bit each time you cast a spell...).

Darklone said:

Yeah, dragontouched counts as being sorcerer, so it took Draconic Heritage...

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All right, didn't spot that

Darklone said:

Well: Found no monster in the MM 1 with claws and only one attack... so that did it for me and I gave it two normal claw attacks.

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Actually, check the hawk. Two talons, a single "talons" attack.

I guess that's why they wrote explicitely talons and "Hawks combine both talons into a single attack."

Draconic Vigor? Argh. Thanks for the warning but I don't think that would help it a lot.