Duelist PrC (revised version)

Kerrick

First Post
So I was working on a rewrite of the Weaponmaster, and cannibalizing some stuff from an old combat styles ruleset I was working on, and I realized that there was a lot of stuff that would be perfect for the Duelist. I looked over the class - it's decent, could almost be a base class, but could use a little fixing up. Where are the disarm abilities, for one? So I sat down, brought over all the stuff that would fit well, cut out some of the oddball things to make room for them (which wasn't much, really), and reorganized everything to make a nice progression. My the intent was to make it more focused around swashbuckler/duelist abilties - speed, finesse, and cinematic moves. This is the result. I added notes about what got changed and why at the end.


DUELIST

Hit Die: d10.

Requirements

Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Perform 3 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks.
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse.

The duelist’s class skills are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

BAB: Fighter.
Good save: Reflex
Bad saves: Fort, Will

1: Improved acrobatics
2: Offhand defense, improved reaction +2
3: Improved Disarm
4: Spring Attack
5: Elaborate parry
6: Greater disarm
7: Acrobatic charge
8: Deflect Arrows, Improved reaction +4
9: Superior disarm
10: Greater acrobatics

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The duelist is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and light armor, but not shields.

Improved Acrobatics (Ex): When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, the Duelist gains a +4 competence bonus to the following skills: Balance, Jump, and Tumble.

Offhand Defense (Ex): When wearing light or no armor and wielding a weapon in her offhand that is smaller than her main weapon, the Duelist gains a +2 shield bonus to AC from the second weapon.

Improved Disarm (Ex): When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, the Duelist is treated as having the Improved Disarm feat, even if she does not fulfill the prerequisites.

Improved Reaction (Ex): At 2nd level, a duelist gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks.
At 8th level, the bonus increases to +4. This bonus stacks with the benefit provided by the Improved Initiative feat.

Spring Attack (Ex): The Duelist gains Spring Attack as a bonus feat.

Elaborate Parry (Ex): At 5th level and higher, if a Duelist chooses to fight defensively or use total defense in melee combat, she gains an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC per two class levels.

Greater Disarm (Ex): When disarming a foe, the Duelist can choose to make the weapon go in a certain direction – for instance, she can make her opponent's dagger fly through the air to strike someone else (requires an attack roll at –4), or throw a sword up into the air so that she can catch it herself (requires a DC 20 Dex check). Obviously, the size of the weapon being disarmed limits what can be done with it; a good rule of thumb is that Light weapons can be used to make ranged attacks, Medium weapons can be directed in a particular direction up to 10 feet away (but not as a ranged attack), and Large weapons can be directed up to 5 feet away.

Acrobatic Charge (Ex): At 7th level, a Duelist gains the ability to charge in situations where others cannot. She may charge over difficult terrain that normally slows movement. Depending on the circumstance, she may still need to make appropriate checks to successfully move over the terrain.

Deflect Arrows (Ex): At 8th level, the Duelist gains the benefit of the Deflect Arrows feat when using a light or one-handed piercing weapon.

Superior Disarm (Ex): The penalties for disarming a weapon of another size are halved, as are any bonuses the opponent receives from holding the weapon with two hands. The DC for catching another weapon is reduced to 17, and the penalty for making ranged attacks with Light weapons is reduced to -2.

Greater Acrobatics (Ex): The character can take 10 on any Balance, Jump, or Tumble check, even under less than ideal conditions (in combat, for example).


Notes
Skills: I added the Climb Skill, since it seemed to fit, and I needed it for the Acrobatics ability.

Armor: It's kind of funny – the class can't use ANY armor, yet the pic shows a woman wearing what looks suspiciously like leather armor. Granted, eventually most Dex-based PCs eschew armor in favor of bracers or whatever, but requiring them to have no armor was just a little too restricive, IMO. Shields, sure – they'll just get in the way. I could see a duelist wearing padded or leather armor, though.

Canny defense: Uses the PC's Int bonus, which would make sense if Combat Expertise were a prereq, but it's not (and I couldn't justify adding it – three feats was enough, IMO). The ability is also poorly worded; I mean, *I* knew what it meant – you can add your Int bonus to AC as long as it doesn't exceed your class level – but other people might not. Not to mention it stacks with Elaborate Parry when fighting defensively.

Grace: Great… so I get a +2 bonus to my high save. Woohoo. And that's only if I'm not wearing armor or using a shield.

Precise Strike: I didn't change this because I'm annoyed with the preponderance of abilities that are identical to sneak attack except for the name. Nope, I cut this one because I just couldn't see any reason for it, for this class. And yes, maybe I'm just a little annoyed.


[Edits: Changed Elaborate Parry to be +1/2 levels bonus; put all the abilities in the right order (oops! :eek: ); ditched Climb as a class skill, and dropped it from the acrobatic abilities.

Ditched Enhanced Mobility, replaced it with Improved Acrobatics, and put in Spring Attack at 4th level.]
 
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Quartz

Hero
Kerrick said:
Offhand Defense (Ex): When wearing light or no armor and wielding a weapon in her offhand that is smaller than her main weapon, the Duelist gains a +2 shield bonus to AC from the second weapon.

What about things like cloaks, tableclothes, stools, etc? Perhaps you should call it Shield of Opportunity? Say 2 + the plus of the item?

Elaborate Parry (Ex): At 7th level and higher, if a duelist chooses to fight defensively or use total defense in melee combat, she gains an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC for each level of duelist she has.

An immediate +7 to AC? This should be given at a very low level, and limited by a stat modfier (q.v. SRD Duellist).

Canny defense: Uses the PC's Int bonus, which would make sense if Combat Expertise were a prereq, but it's not (and I couldn't justify adding it – three feats was enough, IMO).

So make it Cha oriented instead.
 

Blackmage

First Post
Quote:
Elaborate Parry (Ex): At 7th level and higher, if a duelist chooses to fight defensively or use total defense in melee combat, she gains an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC for each level of duelist she has.

An immediate +7 to AC? This should be given at a very low level, and limited by a stat modfier (q.v. SRD Duellist).
Elaborate Parry is one of the abilities of the SRD Duelist.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/duelist.htm#elaborateParry
 

Kerrick

First Post
What about things like cloaks, tableclothes, stools, etc? Perhaps you should call it Shield of Opportunity? Say 2 + the plus of the item?
Ooh, good idea. Maybe add in a line that they can grab up small items as improvised shields, but they suffer a -2 penalty to the main weapon due to being unfamiliar with its use.

An immediate +7 to AC? This should be given at a very low level, and limited by a stat modfier (q.v. SRD Duellist).
Blackmage beat me to it - that's straight out of the Duelist PrC, no changes. I thought about changing it to half level when I was revising all this, but it's only when used for fighting defensively. I think I'll change it to half level anyway - +7 is just a bit much.

So make it Cha oriented instead.
That could work...
 

Arrgh! Mark!

First Post
The only issue I have with it is it does not allow the swashbuckler to get any extra damage, which is something they do very poorly at best. I dislike the precise attack as well, but what I thought might be good would be an ability to do full damage per level per day, much like the weapon master.

Doesn't overpower the class because the damage potential is likely low anyway, and does allow some better abilities.

The other thing might be Improved Spring Attack. Allow PC to move full distance and gain all attacks as long as the PC moves at least 5 feat before attacking a new opponent.

As for the offhand weapon - I like it, but I wouldn't impose a -2 to anything if they pull out something odd; not having a decent attack with it is problem enough.

Just a couple of suggestions for the feel of the swashbuckler. I'm not a big rules man.
 


Kerrick

First Post
The only issue I have with it is it does not allow the swashbuckler to get any extra damage, which is something they do very poorly at best. I dislike the precise attack as well, but what I thought might be good would be an ability to do full damage per level per day, much like the weapon master.
I dunno.. someone with a rapier (18-20 base crit) can do a fair bit of damage... especially if he's got a few levels in rogue, which most Duelists do (or should). Add in Imp Crit or keen, and he's dealing 2d6+ bonuses fairly often. And let's face it - rapiers are the archetypal weapon for a Duelist.

The other thing might be Improved Spring Attack. Allow PC to move full distance and gain all attacks as long as the PC moves at least 5 feat before attacking a new opponent.
I seriously thought about that one, because it fits so well, but I only had 10 levels to play with. This could really be expanded to 15 levels, or even made into a 20-level base class, because there's so much you can do with it.

As for the offhand weapon - I like it, but I wouldn't impose a -2 to anything if they pull out something odd; not having a decent attack with it is problem enough.
Mm... maybe. I mean, Duelists don't usually train with a rapier in one hand and a barstool in the other. If Joe the Duelist were in a barfight and snatched up a stool to fend off his attackers while he attacked or retreated, as appropriate, I'd give him a sheld bonus, but also apply a small penalty to his attack rolls - that stool is likely larger than the rapier, and not exactly balanced for fighting.

I'm not too sure about this ability in general, though, because it stacks with Elaborate Parry. Even if I go with half class level (+3 right off the bat instead of +7), he'd get big bonuses when fighting defensively - +2 normal, +3 for parry, and +2 shield bonus. Since I'm granting them the ability to wear light armor, this might be a bit much. I think Combat Expertise might work better in this slot.

In case anyone is interested in seeing Aquerra's version of the duelist:
Some really good ideas there. I like how they justified the extra damage, the change to Grace, and the Improved Feint. But why is it only 8 levels?
 

el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
I think none of my PrCs have more than 9 levels (ok, I double checked three are 10 levels). I don't believe in stretching them out past usefulness - esp. when you get more variety in the types of people in a PrC when they have to try to continue to improve along some other track. Heck, most of my PrCs are in the range of 6 to 8 levels, and a couple are only 3 levels.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
I don't think Offhand Defense would work in combination with Weapon Finesse. Just FYI. So it'd be rather worthless to any Duelist who plans to rely on Dex for attack rolls by using the Weapon Finesse feat that they needed to qualify in the first place.
 


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