E6: The Game Inside D&D

joela · Sep 13, 2007

power gaming

Scribble said:
... He said the power gamer in him was edgy...

As far as I can tell, no one in the current group is a power-gamer so that may not be as much of an issue.

Scribble · Sep 13, 2007

joela said:
As far as I can tell, no one in the current group is a power-gamer so that may not be as much of an issue.

Power gaming (to me at least) means something different in 3e then it did in previous editions...

In 3e, the combos are pretty much laid out and designed to be taken advantage of... wheas in previous editions PGs eeked out bonuses in whatever ridiculous method they could find...

joela · Sep 13, 2007

feat combos

Kunimatyu said:
The way to get a powergamer excited about E6 is to point out all the feat-intensive builds there were never possible with the core rules -- E6 lets non-fighters pick up 10+ feats to interact with their normal class abilities, and this can allow some seriously fun stuff.

Then he'll come up with like ten different character ideas he wants to try, and the hook is set...

LOL. I was thinking something similar. There are some really cool feats out there that it would take several PCs to use them all at one point or another.

I'm also toying with the idea of "temporary" feats where, after long, arduous quests, the PCs gain a feat that grants them the class abilities higher than 6th (e.g., 12th or even 18th level). Catch, of course, it's temporary, with some risk associated with the boost like permanently being turned into an outsider, suffer 1 point of non-lethal damage per day that can't be healed, etc.

With such a feat -- and much of the world still scaled to E6 -- I don't think players will miss magic items when fireballs are at 10d6 or skills are capped at 18+3 ... for a while.

joela · Sep 13, 2007

feats, major and minor

Scribble said:
Like when he brought up the fact that it eliminates most PR Classes... I said, yeah... but with the feat selection you have, it'll be possible to emulate the spirit of the role in a way you can't do with just PRC selection... He seemed to like that.

Good point. Could make a swashbuckling rogue without all that multi-classing stuff. Or a real kickarse battlemage with, again, no-MCing. By the way, is there a feat that'll allow non-melee classes like wizards able to wield martial weapons?

Scribble said:
I'm planniong to make things a little different then the standard seems to be here though... I'm going to offer major and minor feats (where you can select two minor or 1 major anytime you get a feat slot...)

Major and minor? Is that similar to D20 Future where you get two feats -- or something like them -- for one?

joela · Sep 13, 2007

heroes

Turanil said:
Well, I don't know if it would work, but I would point this: As players, we usually want to get higher in level, 1) out of curiosity ("I want to try those cool powers and spells"), 2) for power ("I want to be a hero").

I was able to convey the latter pretty well in my OA one-shot where the PCs were all champions of their clan and families. Mook rules made mincemeat against 0 and 1st level opponents so that, when the PCs discovered somebodies able to take out a treant(!), that they knew they were the only ones able to stop it.

joela · Sep 13, 2007

fools

Raven Crowking said:
Just tell them that this is the best game design you've since since the d20 System started, and they'd be fools not to try it.

RC

uh, i don't think that'll go over too well :\

joela · Sep 13, 2007

Mc

Scribble said:
A little bit of both. I can't take credit for the design.. it's a Monte Cook thing...

Minor feats are the ones that are cool abilities but no one ever takes because they are only used occasionally. The example he used was the ability to stick to the ceiling for a short period of time... A neat ability, but one that won't come up all that much... (As opposed to say power attack or cleave...)

So ultimately since it's not already done, it will be a DM call on if it's really minor or not, but backed up with some mechanics...

Sources?

Scribble · Sep 13, 2007

joela said:
Good point. Could make a swashbuckling rogue without all that multi-classing stuff. Or a real kickarse battlemage with, again, no-MCing. By the way, is there a feat that'll allow non-melee classes like wizards able to wield martial weapons?

Yeah... Martial Weapon Proficiency...

It's in the PHB

Of course it won't boost their attack bonuses any... But hey...

Major and minor? Is that similar to D20 Future where you get two feats -- or something like them -- for one?

see above...

Mustrum_Ridcully · Sep 13, 2007

joela said:
Good point. Could make a swashbuckling rogue without all that multi-classing stuff. Or a real kickarse battlemage with, again, no-MCing. By the way, is there a feat that'll allow non-melee classes like wizards able to wield martial weapons?

Well, there is the Martial Weapon Profiency feat. Okay, by RAW, it gives you access to only one martial weapon. But feel free to house rule that...

Major and minor? Is that similar to D20 Future where you get two feats -- or something like them -- for one?

The [HEROIC CLASS] Plus feats grant 2 talents, indeed. The feat appears to be assuming that talents are weaker than feats, but I am not sure I agree.

But the idea is more like skill tricks. (Complete Scoundrel, IIRC). Skill Tricks are neat abilities that don't really come up often. (though some are inherently designed so they can't come up often). A feat for 2 skill tricks seems fine (especially since each trick costs 2 skill points, and there is a feat that grants 5 skill points on taking it, and other feats give +2 to two skills at once...)

joela · Sep 13, 2007

skill tricks

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
But the idea is more like skill tricks. (Complete Scoundrel, IIRC). Skill Tricks are neat abilities that don't really come up often. (though some are inherently designed so they can't come up often). A feat for 2 skill tricks seems fine (especially since each trick costs 2 skill points, and there is a feat that grants 5 skill points on taking it, and other feats give +2 to two skills at once...)

I had forgotten about them. Thanks! I was trying to figure out ways to utilize skills more with E6 Feats and that may be the ticket.