E6: The Game Inside D&D

Will · Sep 18, 2007

Well, for the monk, I'd say go play a gestalt game.

As for flaming swords, I kind of like the idea that it requires the equivalent of an incantation.

IE: 'To capture the spirit of flame in a sword, it must be bathed in the flames of a prince of fire elementals, the blood of a red dragon, and then bound by the watery ichor of a nixie.'

Said sword must be +1, and the treasure value of all the above encounters jiggered so that the character's share is 6000 gp.

Zelc · Sep 18, 2007

Imp said:
I agree – one of the attractions of E6 to me is that it doesn't have lots of flaming swords all over the place.

Hmm, I suppose you have a point, and I guess there would be many people who want flaming swords to be much rarer than +2 swords. Maybe lowering their CR can be in one of those "Optional Rules" boxes in the PDF.

What to do about TWF vs. THF vs. sword/board is, after a point*, probably the job of an entirely other set of optional rules (which I would welcome! yeesh) because it's such a big job.

Well, the difference between TWF and THF is about a 10% difference (slightly above 10% for 2x short swords, slightly below 10% for a longsword + shortsword). A capstone feat that reduces the TWF penalty down to -1/-1 would bring the damage figures really close to that for THF. Also, a feat that allows you to attack once with both weapons as an attack action is a good idea.

However, fixing the Monk is really beyond the scope of E6, especially since Ryan has stated he's not terribly interested in trying to rebalance a lot of the D&D classes, and alterations to classes start to undercut the simplicity.

So...you're right, but I don't think a full-BAB Monk would make the E6 PDF. Still, it's an excellent analysis, and I'll probably house-rule Monks that way in my homegame.

I see your point. Truly, though, it's one or two lines in the PDF: Monks gain full BAB progression, and Soulknives gain full BAB progression. Very simple, and these two classes depend on hitting stuff in order to be effective. Playing a monk only to do much less damage than a fighter would not be very fun for most people. The fixed nature of E6 means some other bonuses higher level monks would get, like extremely high speeds and Quivering Palm will probably not see play. That means monks will be behind by a lot, and they will stay behind by a lot. I think the nature of the E6 system at least requires a strong recommendation for that change.

Ry · Sep 18, 2007

Hey guys, could you start a thread about E6 class balance in House Rules? Per my deal with Piratecat, this thread's purpose is more around making E6 campaigns (that's why it hasn't been moved over to house rules by the mods).

joela · Sep 18, 2007

Alternative

Will said:
As for flaming swords, I kind of like the idea that it requires the equivalent of an incantation.

IE: 'To capture the spirit of flame in a sword, it must be bathed in the flames of a prince of fire elementals, the blood of a red dragon, and then bound by the watery ichor of a nixie.'

Said sword must be +1, and the treasure value of all the above encounters jiggered so that the character's share is 6000 gp.

Exactly. Or make a deal with the devil/angel/nature spirit/elder race, etc., to make it for you. First, though, you have the pay the price....

Damn. Now that sounds like fantasy adventuring.

joela · Sep 18, 2007

convincing the players

rycanada said:
Hey guys, could you start a thread about E6 class balance in House Rules? Per my deal with Piratecat, this thread's purpose is more around making E6 campaigns (that's why it hasn't been moved over to house rules by the mods).

And speaking of campaigns, I'm a hairs throw away from starting one, possibly two, Eberron games.

"Eberron Politico" will be set in Sharn as the PCs get involved in the machinations of the Dragonmarked and Aberrents as the two factions struggle to replace three Houses due to the disappearance of all Dwarves and Elves. "Eberron Adventurous" will have a separate group of PCs trekking across Eberron via those flying ships engaging in traditional dungeon crawls, etc. While the players are thrilled to be starting at 6th level, how do I convince them to use the E6 system?

Ry · Sep 18, 2007

All I can say is show them how many cool feats they can take, how awesome their characters will be, and emphasize that the world isn't going to be expecting them to jump this ridiculous curve. They can still plan "builds" but they should look at that build in terms of feats instead of levels (assure them they won't want for stuff to build).

Ry · Sep 18, 2007

Also tell them the villain they hate in the first session might still be a credible threat when they meet him. Hell, tell them this will make it more fun for you to DM it: everybody knows a game's more likely to last when the DM is psyched for the concept.

Mustrum_Ridcully · Sep 18, 2007

joela said:
And speaking of campaigns, I'm a hairs throw away from starting one, possibly two, Eberron games.

"Eberron Politico" will be set in Sharn as the PCs get involved in the machinations of the Dragonmarked and Aberrents as the two factions struggle to replace three Houses due to the disappearance of all Dwarves and Elves. "Eberron Adventurous" will have a separate group of PCs trekking across Eberron via those flying ships engaging in traditional dungeon crawls, etc. While the players are thrilled to be starting at 6th level, how do I convince them to use the E6 system?

Tell them they get to use tons of feats and that they probably get a new feat after each session (that' assuming you have long sessions like my group) and nobody can screw them over with Unholy Blights or Finger of Death...

Hrothgar Rannúlfr · Sep 18, 2007

Kunimatyu said:
You're probably right re: the Monk and full BAB...

That's why I like Gestalt E6. If you want a Monk with full BAB, it's easy. Just pick a class to go with it that has full BAB.

Did I mention that I really like the idea of Gestalts?

Hrothgar Rannúlfr · Sep 18, 2007

E6 & Vampires

joela said:
Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:

I was just wondering about the best way to build an E6 legal vampire....

Click to expand...

Since vampires are monsters, I'd view them as such and just scale their abilities to the appropriate CR.

Yeah... That's one way. But, the ECL being higher than 6th still bugs me a little. Though, I guess it's not that much different than a 6th level character with 30 extra feats. I guess that's the part that I wasn't considering.