AOO and Free actions.

Mystern · Dec 12, 2007

So this came up in game last sunday. the question arose that the city guards had crossbows out and ready and i provoked an aoo running past them. can they drop their weapons and then attempt to grapple me? in the phb it defines a free action can be done at any time . . . but i seem to remember in some errata that it stated that a free action must be done on your turn and a nonaction can be done at any time.
any help?

billd91 · Dec 12, 2007

You are correct that free actions can only be done on your own turn. That's one reason they came up with immediate actions to cover things that should be like free actions but can be done one someone else's turn.

Another comment, you may provoke an AoO, but since the guards are armed with missile weapons, they don't typically get AoO. There would have to be some other factor involved, like improved unarmed attack, that would make them "threatening". And then they'd get to use the threatening weapons (in this case, a kick or head butt, both of which could be covered by 'unarmed attack').

Mystern · Dec 12, 2007

billd91 said:
You are correct that free actions can only be done on your own turn. That's one reason they came up with immediate actions to cover things that should be like free actions but can be done one someone else's turn.

Another comment, you may provoke an AoO, but since the guards are armed with missile weapons, they don't typically get AoO. There would have to be some other factor involved, like improved unarmed attack, that would make them "threatening". And then they'd get to use the threatening weapons (in this case, a kick or head butt, both of which could be covered by 'unarmed attack').

can you tell me the book this is in? my dm didn't believe me and that encounter should have been 1 round.

MarkB · Dec 12, 2007

Mystern said:
can you tell me the book this is in? my dm didn't believe me and that encounter should have been 1 round.

It's all in the PHB.

Mystern · Dec 12, 2007

MarkB said:
It's all in the PHB.

no it's not. unless updated phb includes info on immediate actions. mine doesn't.
this is what is says in phb:

You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally

Aestolia · Dec 12, 2007

Well here's my two cents:

PHB P.139 "You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."

One could argue that 'taking an action normally' means in your normal turn sequence...

PHB P.144 "Speaking - In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn."

I cite speaking because it is the ONLY listed free action that specifies 'when it isn't your turn'

Alternatively, even if you say that an AoO is a situation where you would get a free action... As Bill said... They're armed with ranged weapons, and therefore do not threaten their adjacent squares, which in turn means no AoO.

irdeggman · Dec 12, 2007

Mystern said:
no it's not. unless updated phb includes info on immediate actions. mine doesn't.

Yes it is if you know how to read the text (not meant to sound insulting - there sometimes is an art to reading the text).

PHB pg 138

When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire rounds' worth of actions.

PHB pg 139

You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.

Free action is listed as a type of action.

Note that there are some "free actions" that can be performed even out of order.

PHB pg 144

In general, speaking is a free action that yuo can perform even when it isn't your turn.

Exceptions to the rule are specifically called out - like speaking or casting feather fall (prior to implementation of "immediate actions")

Feather Fall (PHB pg 229)

You may even cast this spell when it isn't your turn.

Again, exceptions are spelled out otherwise the normal rule applies.

Now when implementing immediate actions they are specific in that they can be done outside of you normal order in the initiative sequence.

billd91 · Dec 12, 2007

The immediate (and swift) actions debuted in some of the splatbooks. Complete Divine maybe? They have been reprinted many many times since then and, I believe, can be found on the WotC website.

Mystern · Dec 12, 2007

Aestolia said:
Alternatively, even if you say that an AoO is a situation where you would get a free action... As Bill said... They're armed with ranged weapons, and therefore do not threaten their adjacent squares, which in turn means no AoO.

well what came up was that the guards all had crossbows out and i ran past them. my dm ruled that them dropping their crossbows would allow them to attempt a grapple against me as an aoo as i moved out of a threatened square. i know there is like 3 rules violations in there i just can't find the books to back me up.

Zurai · Dec 12, 2007

Unless the guards had Improved Unarmed Strike, they did not threaten with their bare hands, and thus you provoked no attacks for moving through squares adjacent to them.