Trail of Cthulhu - Impressions?

WhatGravitas

Explorer
As the title says... who has Trail of Cthulhu, what are first impressions, and what are its perks ad drawbacks compared to regular Call of Cthulhu?

I'm contemplating getting this for my S.O., as she's pretty much a Cthulhu Mythos Fiend (in the good way), and liked CoC - so any good?

Cheers, LT.
 

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The Eternal GM

First Post
I have it, in the process of dissection and comprehension right now. For the most part my opinion (and my players' opinions) are positive.

First Impressions:

It is pretty. Dark, eerie art, mostly of high quality and all nicely fitting. Not too much of it either.

It is clearly a bold and honest attempt to clear up the author's issues with BRP CoC.

On Further Reading:

It is not as simple as BRP. But many of the changes are a positive.

- It removes the 25+ years of Chaosium canon and stance on Great Old Ones, societies and plots.
- It provides a lot of style of play options. Pulp or Purist game rules, and three campaign frames to support long-term campaigns instead of the usual 'your family member died and left you a spooky house' stuff.
- It gives a good collection of mythos beasties, but doesn't stat the GOO's beyond how much mental harm they can do you. Followed by a set of bullet point 'facts' from which you may pick and choose. Some of these are VERY cool.
- It provides LOTS of solid advice on how to run ToC, how to set up campaigns and stories. Most seems goodly stuff.
- The system is not always simply laid out, but seems promising.

Essentially, investigation is not random, it is an investment of character resources. You always get the bare basic clues if you look for them, but further clues demand investment from the characters.

Normal skills (climbing, shooting, etc) follow standard procedure.

Sanity is revamped. Stability covers shock and terror (a corpse! Oh noes!) and recovers with no problems. Sanity is 'blasted' by meeting the mythos and very rarely returns. As a note, the option to see the dice rolls, then opt to faint to minimize the losses is awesome.

Magic gets coverage, as does combat and all the other system stuff you'd expect.

The example adventure is... Odd... Just odd. Not what I'd have chosen at all. It's not badly done, but it takes the Cleveland 'Torso Murders' and adds a mythos spin. Not my bag baby, might be for others though.

Anything else?
 

FunkBGR

Explorer
I own it, and have not played it yet.

It's a nice looking book, that details the Gumshoe system, along with how to play in two different styles (Classic and Pulp). The point of the Gumshoe system is that it gets rid of rolls like, "We search for clues", since technically you can fail that roll and wind up without the clues. Instead, it focuses on automatically giving all the clues to the players, but it's up to the players to figure out what to do with those clues.

So, for example, I might walk into the Professors office only to find him face down, dead, with a gun in his right hand.

As an investigator, I might have 2 points of "Knowledge: Anatomy" or something (don't recall what it's called), and I spend a point of it to basically get more info on the scene - and could potentially find out the Professor was already dead when the bullet entered his body. Points come back at the start of . . . the next session or scene or something.

Another thing is that characters don't really have standard statistics like strength or whatever it is in BRP - you just have ratings in the various skill traits. There is still Sanity though.

It's "different", but really cool, and a really innovative way to take on this kind of game.
 


Korgoth

First Post
I see it as an attempt to solve problems that didn't actually exist. It seems to me that the 2 radical moves it makes are to make investigation 'nonrandom' and to remove the stats for the big baddies.

Let me take the second point first: removing stats for the big baddies. Let's recall first of all that in the central story of the so-called Cthulhu Mythos, "The Call of Cthulhu", Cthulhu is defeated by a mariner who rams his boat into Cthulhu's noggin. So much for the oft-repeated gamer myth that when a Great Old One shows up, d100000000 investigators automatically die and the rest have their faces spontaneously explode for eleventy-billion damage. You can (at least temporarily) stave off the end of the planet with the African Queen, and you don't even need Bogie to do it. But how does anyone know that if the squid doesn't have any stats? Then it's just pure fiat.

This applies to other things that investigators might try in the game. If they somehow mess up and the cultists get their ritual completed, the Keeper doesn't have to say "Well, OK then, the faces of all human beings spontaneously explode. The end." There might be something you can do to take out the monster. And the different monsters are different, not only in their "story hooks" but in their attributes. That's part of the game.

This also leads to another issue with the way people look at the Mythos. It seems that a lot of gamers seem to conceive of the Mythos as a regular pantheon, with invincible entities that are always one step ahead of mankind and are made of Teflon (evil Teflon, but still). However, I think the point of the Mythos is that these are just alien beings of immense power. Sure they're (mostly) big, tough and psychic. Sure some dummies worship them because they don't know what they're really dealing with (and thus end up consumed). But they're not really gods. They're just giant, hungry aliens with psychic emanations strong enough to melt you.

In a sense, gamers have tried to turn the Mythos entities into Mary Sues. But really they're just big monsters that can get unlucky or have a bad day in the material universe just like anybody else.

As an aside, I had this same problem with Cloverfield: you're hitting this thing with 2,000lb bunker busters and you don't even scratch it? I call B.S. The monster already has enough advantages without the screenwriter having to cheat on its behalf.

The other issue was with the investigations. Sure, there are a lot of times when a helpful clue requires a Library Use check to turn up. There are a couple of points with this. In a well-written adventure, the solution of the adventure should not turn upon a single clue. Now, in an especially tough adventure, there might be one clue that gives the players a handle on the most elegant and complete solution, which they would otherwise have to conclude to from disparate sources. However, the adventure can be completed with relative success (like, you can survive it) without this clue.

Further, clues are often available without a skill roll; it's just a matter of checking for the right information. I ran a Modern scenario (in a sort of proto-Delta Green game) where the PCs should have checked to see if an agency tracked the entrance of an unidentified meteor-type object into the atmosphere, but they neglected to check up on that sort of info and so missed a clue. But the point there is not to punish them for not guessing right on a blind guess, but to punish them for not being thorough. That's the point of the investigation, to me: can you be relatively thorough in the given time with the given resources. Obviously a contest of "guessing right" is no game at all, it's just silly.

Likewise, clues that are available with skill rolls, especially Library Use (the most common one in my experience) do not become unavailable if you missed the roll. There's a game to that, too. The Keeper rolls the check secretly and then announces "After 4 hours of research, you don't find anything relevant". The player then gets to make a game choice: keep going, in case it was a failed roll, or spend time on something else? And maybe they are up against the clock, or maybe they are not; they may or may not even know. So it's a real choice that the player is making. Maybe the PC will stay for another few hours; maybe that will be profitable or not.

Of course, having a low Library Use skill is as dangerous as having low combat skills and getting into lots of fights. You want to send your person who actually knows what he's doing to the library/archives, just like you send your combat guy into combat rather than johnny pencilneck.

So in my experience, the game doesn't really turn on a single Library Use roll, or even a series of such rolls, since you can generally just keep rolling. Also, if the party decides that it missed a clue at some point (like they find themselves lacking info) they can always send guys back to the library.

And finally, I find CoC to be a game of hard knocks and tough breaks anyway. You're really up against the "most dangerous game" in that one. Some times you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. Especially when the bear is 50 feet tall. It has the same basic requirement as an old school dungeon crawl: you better bring your A game.
 

malladin

Explorer
I'd tend to agree the problem it claims to solve isn't one. This in no way detracts from the fact the game provides a new and different way of approaching Mythos gaming. While I'm not a big fan of Ken Hite his understanding of the various approaches to the Mythos, which has no one truth-even Lovecraft approaches differently in his stories, nevermind 80 odd years of continuing input, is apparent in the game and allows for it to cater for whichever approach you prefer. For example I completely disagree with Korgoth on the nature of Mythos beings but believe the system could be used with both interpretations of the Mythos at its core.
 
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jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
I think that the issue of inevstigation was/is/will be a problem for games that don't supporit it mechanically at all and rely entirely upon GM fiat to make it happen. This approach isn't a problem if you have a good GM, though not everybody can GM an investigative scenario and GM it well, as several CoC games in the past have taught me.

I've seen poor GM fiat and unrealistic planning ruin a 'mystery' game dozens of times and, honestly, I'm not sure that they would commonly end any other way when when they depend wholly upon wholly arbitrary descision making or One True way clue paths (i.e., asking one very specific question or searching one very specific place, as determined by the GM, to find a clue).

In all such instances that I've experienced this kind of 'investigation', it either kills the game dead outright or provides several hours of unfun when you wrack your brains and roll dice trying to solve what the GM thinks is a very clever puzzle, after which players have no further interest in said game.

ToC addresses these very real issues by providing mehcanical, in-game, support for a structure that facilitates multiple paths of discovery from point A to point B and by allowing players to increase the likelihood of clue discovery. Both of these things short circuit the maddening (and wholly unrealistic) nature of the scenarios that I mention above.
 
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Crothian

First Post
The problems it fixes are not ones a good GM has in his game. But they are problems I have seen from GMs in con games and from other players stories.
 


Korgoth

First Post
Crothian said:
The problems it fixes are not ones a good GM has in his game. But they are problems I have seen from GMs in con games and from other players stories.

If you're playing "[X] of Cthulhu" with a bad GM, nothing whatsoever can save it. Just pack up and head for a different game.
 

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