Compiled info on upcoming classes & races

Mort_Q · Apr 20, 2008

Rechan said:
Ki and Psionics are both internal forces, but they are DIFFERENT.

Your opinion is noted.

Rechan · Apr 20, 2008

Mort_Q said:
Your opinion is noted.

I'll put it to you this way.

Some people who want mind readers and telekinetics don't want kung fu and ninja.

Some people who want kung fu and ninja don't want mind readers and telekinetics.

While they might be the same thing, there are two different "feels" or "genres" to both: one is oriental, the other is sci-fi.

So, shoe-horning both into the same book, or under the same power source, is probably going to irritate both camps. There is some overlap, but about as much overlap as "I want divine magic without shooting fireballs" "I want arcane magic without healing".

MaelStorm · Apr 20, 2008

Ondo said:
So I've decided to try and gather links to sources of info about upcoming classes and power sources, in the hopes that it'll help people (like me, for instance) stay caught up on all the info. I'm not repeating most info that was in Races & Classes, at least for now. I'm assuming people know the basics of what a Swordmage is, for example.

The Player's Handbook will include the Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Warlord, Paladin, Cleric, Warlock, and Wizard. The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide will include the Swordmage.

The Player's Handbook II will include Arcane and Divine information. Primal and Psionic are the new power sources highest on the list to be included, but they're not sure how much will fit (source). It will include the Sorcerer (source), as well as the Druid, Barbarian, and Bard (source).

The Bard will be an Arcane Leader (source).

Significant Druid info here.

The Monk is not a Martial Striker, and as of D&D XP they had not seriously started designing the class (source).

Elementalists are mentioned in the Dwarf entry in Races & Classes alongside clerics, paladins, fighters, barbarians, rangers, and wizards, so they are likely a planned class.

"WotC has identified 8 power sources that should take care of basically 90% of the classes they foresee making." (source) Known power sources are Martial, Arcane, Divine, Psionic, Shadow (from Worlds & Monsters), and Primal (source).

I'm glad you decided to put all this info together in one post. This confirmed my theory that PH II will complete and close the arcane and divine cycle started with PH I, along with starting a new cycle with the primal and psionic classes. So I don't think we'll see the release of Arcane Powers and Divine Powers before Fall 2009.

I'm pretty confident PH II will devote more space on classes because they confirmed that PH II won't be full of redundant info. So, it'll contain around 9-11 new classes (depending on how much extra space they will devote on new races, new combat rules, new weapons, and new rituals), not just 8 new classes.

In a The Tome podcast, the lead designers Andy Collins (whose specialty is 4E crunch), hinted that WotC is thinking on developing a new Divine class that will fill the role of the controller, it'll be more combat oriented (than the Priest) with ranged attack powers.

I'm eager to try the new Elementalist, Druid, and Sorcerer, in summer 2009. I'm a little bit disappointed I'll have to wait this long to get these classes, but if it means that they'll be playtested I think it's worth the wait. In the mean time, I will buy the new Advanced PH from Necromancer.

FitzTheRuke · Apr 20, 2008

I actually like the idea of the Monk as a Divine Striker... keep the religious classes Divine. (Let's see if someone starts to argue that a Monk isn't religion-based.)

A monk who isn't religion-based is a ninja.

Beside, it might be fun to split back up the Friar Tuck monk and the Yamma Bushi monk.

Fitz

Stogoe · Apr 20, 2008

Rechan said:
I'll put it to you this way.

Some people who want mind readers and telekinetics don't want kung fu and ninja.

Some people who want kung fu and ninja don't want mind readers and telekinetics.

While they might be the same thing, there are two different "feels" or "genres" to both: one is oriental, the other is sci-fi.

So, shoe-horning both into the same book, or under the same power source, is probably going to irritate both camps. There is some overlap, but about as much overlap as "I want divine magic without shooting fireballs" "I want arcane magic without healing".

This is about as clear and sensible an argument as I have found for keeping wuxia and psychics separate.

FitzTheRuke said:
it might be fun to split back up the Friar Tuck monk

What exactly would a Friar Tuck monk bring to a party, besides cowering in a corner when the violence starts? Really, though, I'm having trouble imagining the archetype in an adventuring context.

Xethreau · Apr 20, 2008

I did something like this over on the gleemax forums. We call it the Classes FAQ

Ondo · Apr 20, 2008

Cirex said:
What role is the monk going to fit then? Melee controller...?

Well, Races & Classes says he'll likely be a Striker. That may change, but it seems unlikely to me that they would be sure of the change before starting serious design. The power source, though, they probably decided on some time ago. So I expect he won't be Martial.

The description of the Monk in Races & Classes seems to pretty much rule out Divine, and makes Psionic sound unlikely. So I'm expecting the Monk to be a Ki Striker.

FitzTheRuke · Apr 20, 2008

Stogoe said:
What exactly would a Friar Tuck monk bring to a party, besides cowering in a corner when the violence starts? Really, though, I'm having trouble imagining the archetype in an adventuring context.

I didn't mean personality-wise, I simply meant more of a European feel like most of the rest of your average D&D setting, leaving the Yamma Bushi or Tibetan Monk archetype for an Asian Adventures type book, as one of the designers suggested somewhere.

For the record, there were european monks who were fighting men as well as asian ones. The asian ones just spark the imagination better.

Fitz

Cirex · Apr 20, 2008

Ondo said:
Well, Races & Classes says he'll likely be a Striker. That may change, but it seems unlikely to me that they would be sure of the change before starting serious design. The power source, though, they probably decided on some time ago. So I expect he won't be Martial.

The description of the Monk in Races & Classes seems to pretty much rule out Divine, and makes Psionic sound unlikely. So I'm expecting the Monk to be a Ki Striker.

I've been reading that is a striker too, but that article says it's not a martial striker...so we will see.

If there has to be a melee controller, I think it should be the monk, with the barbarian being a hybrid between defender and striker (maybe).

Green Knight · Apr 20, 2008

Cirex said:
I've been reading that is a striker too, but that article says it's not a martial striker...so we will see.

CH: So the monk will be a martial striker? Can we call that a scoop?

Andy: (laughs) That’s at least 50% wrong. I shouldn’t say too much since we haven’t seriously started designing the class.

That 50% is likely a reference to the Martial part, so the Monk will likely be a Striker in 4E. Only question is what the power source will be. Personally, I'm hoping for a Ki power source. I really don't see the Monk as psionic, and as another poster pointed out, I'd rather those two particular flavors of characters stayed separated.