Converting 3.xE adventures....

So, it's a little early to get into any specifics involving conversions (we don't have the rules after all) but....how viable does the community think this practice is going to be? The concern that I have is that in 3e the most common fight was the pcs against a single opponent. While this will still be an option in 4th (via solo monsters) it seems like 4th strongly encourages larger encounters.

An example is the master bad guy and his lieutenants. In 3rd, more often than not this would be handled by fighting the lieutenants one at a time and then the bad guy by himself or occasionally with some cannon fodder. So, with this style of set up you can either...

Have the lieutenants join the boss for a single cool encounter (boss = elite, lts = standard monsters) and lose multiple encounters (the lt encounters) OR
Throw multiple lessers into each of the lt encounters (caught the fighter lieutenant in his bedroom, well good thing he's playing cards with a couple of guards....priest in the temple, he's got some acolytes in there with him, etc)...the downside of this is the concern that it will feel artificial OR
A more or less direct conversion (either turning most opponents into solos or making them elites and having the encounters be too easy)

The boss/lieutenant is just an example but one that shows up fairly often. The general concern is just that 3rd adventures tend to have lots of single bad guy encounters which is counter for 4e encounter design.

SO...to sum up...converting adventures from 3rd to 4th: challenging but doable or just a waste of time? What do we think?

shadowlance said:

SO...to sum up...converting adventures from 3rd to 4th: challenging but doable or just a waste of time? What do we think?

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I have been converting bits of Castle Whiterock (A few NPCs posted in the fan creation section) and while the conversion is ofc course fairly limited due to the amount of rules available, I think it is fairly easy.

In fact, on paper, the encounters often come much closer to the flavor presented in the module, as the monster design in 4e allows for far greater customization - IMHO of course.

Cheers,

In my opinion, it shouldn't be that hard.

It is preferable to just increase the monster-count. If that isn't possible I would either "elite" the monsters, or merge encounters.

Most of the time when I play 3e I wonder why the monsters aren't ganging up on the characters. Fighting in a room with stone floors and stone walls is real noisy.

For instance: instead of having one door guard you can have one door guard and four extra guards in the guard room that comes when they characters kill the first guard.

I've been debating doing a 4e update on Savage Tides and Red Hand of Doom, as I think they'd come across well. RHoD would be fairly easy, most of the encounters have multiple monsters in the mix, so it's more of a rebalancing. Might even bring down the level of the adventure.

Well I'm happy to hear that people don't really share my concerns. Hopefully they are unfounded. I hadn't considered Red Hand of Doom ...I agree that it would probably convert over very well.

I'm more focused on the Pathfinder adventures. Unfortunately the Paizo community is umm...less than excited (to put it mildly) about 4th edition....so there's not a lot of help over there yet. Perhaps once the rules are in hand the general anti-4e attitude will relax a bit.

Vael said:

RHoD would be fairly easy, most of the encounters have multiple monsters in the mix, so it's more of a rebalancing.

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No, no, no - with minions, you can do RHoD right! With lots and lots of soldiers! HORDES!

Cheers, LT.

shadowlance said:

Throw multiple lessers into each of the lt encounters (caught the fighter lieutenant in his bedroom, well good thing he's playing cards with a couple of guards....priest in the temple, he's got some acolytes in there with him, etc)...the downside of this is the concern that it will feel artificial OR

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Call the guards? The others hear the commotion (Fighting isn't quiet): A round after combat begins the others try to get it. Now if the PCs bar the door (the enemies slowly try to beak in).
Unless a PC is holding the door shut: they will just ram it open (if locked, but how did the PCs get a lock... than they chop it open).

So it starts maybe just the Lieutentant: if you want him to live longer (why not Elite template him?).
That way when help arrives he will definately still live.

The boss/lieutenant is just an example but one that shows up fairly often. The general concern is just that 3rd adventures tend to have lots of single bad guy encounters which is counter for 4e encounter design.

SO...to sum up...converting adventures from 3rd to 4th: challenging but doable or just a waste of time? What do we think?

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A Solo person was always a bad idea unless a Dragon, Demon, or Spellcaster (even than can be bad).
Never good to have a battle 4 or 5 versus 1 in 3.5 (at least in my expereince). Especially since save or dies can work really well in 3.5.

The 4e combat favours movement to a greater extent, so some areas may need to be enlarged to increase the fun factor.

My plan was to do either #1 or #3, probably #1.

One of the early discussions of 4e adventure design included the concept of larger, multi-room encounters. These involve reinforcements, alarms, or people who are in the next room and not conveniently comatose. It sounds very much like 4e will work well with the idea that not everyone who will participate in an encounter has to start out in the room just waiting for PCs to walk in.

That's a very, very good thing, IMO. I just hope practice has met theory.

Mort_Q said:

The 4e combat favours movement to a greater extent, so some areas may need to be enlarged to increase the fun factor.

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That is my opinion as well. This is why I feel that although conversions can be done, that without (in some cases) significant changes to mobs and floorplans, you won't be playing the game in the way 4E was designed to be played.

IMHO 4E adventures are best played with lots of open area, with various terrain features, and multiple mobs. If you're not letting the classes (and their new abilities) take center stage, then how much are you really changing in your game.