Sagiro's Story Hour: The FINAL Adventures of Abernathy's Company (FINISHED 7/3/14)

Sagiro · Dec 12, 2010

RedTonic said:
Is there a house rule somewhere about the ironstorm + chain lightning combo, or is that a... canon combo? It sounds like something I'd like to try. :3

Nope, not a house rule. It's part of the description of ironstorm in Relics & Rituals. If memory serves, when chain lightning is cast near an ironstorm, everything in the area of the latter takes (X+4)d6 damage, where X is the damage the primary target of the chain lightning would have normally taken.

Siuis · Dec 13, 2010

PC, I was actually commenting on all of the pictures in the epic level handbook. It shows all of the iconic characters (even the PrC ones) but with "epic" gear. I know they had to show the difference since they were using a visual medium, but some of the images were jarring and absurd- most notably, the flaming weapon used by the penultimate sneak. I was thinking of a contrast, where most of your party continues with their comfy peasant clothes, neat, maybe plain but functional equipment with a few personal touches; feathered shield, holy symbols, realistic personal flair. I then remembered Dranko having a helmet of glory(?) in all it's obnoxious, jewel-encrusted splendour. I giggled for a minute and wondered what Abernathy's company would look like, decked out all "epic". I was, admittedly, not bothering to be rational at the time

For Dranko's eternal loss of recognition; I've found that D&D is about overcoming hindrances. That Dranko just can't fix it, rather than needs a lot of effort, is jarring. I'm looking at it in the wrong light, I know. It's bittersweet, and is supposed to evoke this kind of empathy, or the sacrifice was meaningless. I was just putting some thought into the how of going about it, because for me knowing that even going through all these otherwise-legitimate steps to fix something won't work has more impact than just "there is no way". I asked fully expecting you guys to have thought through and refuted the idea already.

Maybe that's my issue? I think in mechanics. It's an extra layer of distance between me and the game world. As long as that's there, I won't be able to have a game like this...
And apparently, "geeking" is not a word, but Geelong is. Thank you, auto correct.

Joshua Randall · Dec 13, 2010

I don't object to disintegrate so much because (1) you have to hit with it and (2) the target has to fail a Fort save and (3) you still have to roll those damage dice.

I guess what I was referring to is the contrast between this fight, which was cool (and did involve a few save-or-die's) and something like the following fight, in which mass save-or-die's wiped the floor.

(And, apologies for quoting from another Story Hour, but this really is the perfect example.)

[sblock]

(from Sepulchrave's story, emphasis added)

"I…" The Bard began, but never finished.

Because Mostin, whether in a fit of paranoia, or anticipating an inevitable coming to blows, acted unilaterally, and made a decision which would change the way that the travellers related with the inhabitants of Afqithan. To the others, it also demonstrated the power that an arcanist of Mostin’s stature could wield in Faerie or any of its orbiting demiplanes. He spat a number of syllables out, prompting bows to be drawn or shot, and eliciting a desperate but ineffectual gesture in response from Koilimilou.

**

Ortwin experienced a strange sensation which lasted less than a fraction of a second – the merest flash in his mind. Shomei immediately recognized it for what it was – a temporal discontinuity in their vicinity. After it had passed, there was a colossal discharge of magical energy, and the tapestry of reality threatened to rupture completely before it rewove itself. Echoes of Sonics hung in the air.

The three Jariliths, Shupthul, the Succubus and twenty-six of the thirty Hell-hounds had vanished: the Captain’s empty armour and arms collapsed to the ground in a noisy rattle. Eleven of the Loquai had been petrified, along with six of their griffon mounts – some frozen with grotesque expressions of terror upon their faces. One other sidhe was dead from fear, and all but one of the remaining steeds had likewise been slain by a phantasmal killer. Each of the umbral quicklings had been reduced to a pulp by sonic attacks. The female sidhe sat upon a stone griffon with a vacant expression on her face.*

The last griffon attempted to flee with its petrified rider, along with the four hell-hounds. Mostin turned them into flounders, which flapped impotently in the air before suffocating.

[...]

*Mostin’s attack consisted of a time stop, empowered and maximized by the magical trait of the plane to 6 rounds of virtual time, during which he cast haste, a chained flesh to stone, a chained phantasmal killer, two banishments directed at the demons and hell-hounds, disintegrations targeting Shupthul and the Succubus Iemazai, an insanity on Koilimilou, and various sonics. There were multiple redundancies in the spells – some of the Loquai were struck by both the flesh to stone and phantasmal killer. Shupthul avoided petrification but was disintegrated. Koilimilou succumbed to insanity. The save DCs were 25+ spell level because of Mostin’s augmented Intelligence, and even with the chained spells, most of the targets needed to roll 20s. Koilimilou initially attempted to counterspell the time stop with a greater dispelling she had readied, but failed.

[/sblock]

wedgeski · Dec 13, 2010

Nice post Joshua.

While Mostin's actions are certainly epic in every sense of the word, and while this question would, on the face of it, seem like madness in reference to Sepulchrave's campaign, I have to ask myself: would I enjoy playing in a campaign like that?

For me it goes right back to the recent discussion on very high-level play. With that much power at your disposal, and an unwavering willingness to use it against your foes, doesn't the campaign just degenerate into

-for-tat exchanges of obscenely powerful magic, one after another until the inevitable day when you choose the wrong spell or, simply, fail the wrong save?

That's a knife-edge I wouldn't want to walk every single session. It's illuminating to hear about the unspoken agreements in Sagiro's game which reflect upon it.

shilsen · Dec 13, 2010

wedgeski said:
Nice post Joshua.

While Mostin's actions are certainly epic in every sense of the word, and while this question would, on the face of it, seem like madness in reference to Sepulchrave's campaign, I have to ask myself: would I enjoy playing in a campaign like that?

It's interesting for me to read someone else saying that, since I decided a long time ago that Sepulchrave's campaign is a perfect example of the difference between great writing (which I think it is) and a great game (which, for me, it would absolutely not be). It's not surprising at all to me that Sep has mentioned on multiple occasions, IIRC, that he doesn't run a tabletop game for the group the way Sagiro is (and most of us are) doing, but rather runs one-on-one sessions with the individual players.

As a DM who has sometimes had players having the same responses that Sagiro mentioned above, this discussion has been really interesting for me.

coyote6 · Dec 14, 2010

FWIW, that trick wouldn't actually work, at least not in 3.5e -- spells you cast with a duration of instantaneous can't hurt anyone else. You can summon, you can dump a bunch of delayed spells -- but there was no mention of Delay Spell.

The scene in Sep's game might've been 3.0 rules, though. Of course, the PCs are way beyond normal power levels -- Mostin apparently has Int 40 at that point.

(Me, I'd have switched to Mutants & Masterminds or FATE or something a zillion levels ago.

)

Everett · Dec 14, 2010

Siuis said:
For Dranko's eternal loss of recognition; I've found that D&D is about overcoming hindrances. That Dranko just can't fix it, rather than needs a lot of effort, is jarring. I'm looking at it in the wrong light, I know. It's bittersweet, and is supposed to evoke this kind of empathy, or the sacrifice was meaningless. I was just putting some thought into the how of going about it, because for me knowing that even going through all these otherwise-legitimate steps to fix something won't work has more impact than just "there is no way". I asked fully expecting you guys to have thought through and refuted the idea already.

I don't see that Dranko's sacrifice is meant to evoke empathy from us. Fame, and the wanting it or needing it, isn't exactly a heroic goal, and Dranko, after all, is some mixture of anti-hero and jerk, ie., Jayne in Firefly/Serenity. (I mean that Dranko is much more like Jayne than Mal. "We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode.") Throwing the bottle into the void was a pretty dumb thing to do in the first place (and totally in character), and the way it came back to bite him also makes sense insofar as a character arc would naturally play out. I wouldn't expect that he would ever be able to recover his quest for fame -- since after all, he hasn't lost that wish or desire, it's just that if he were to pursue it he'd be dragged off by tentacle-monsters that exist in a dim, OTHERspace totally apart from good or evil.

Really, it's for Piratecat to resolve how he sees fit, or to live with.

And if you think about it, the closest thing the party has ever had to a straight hero was One Certain Step, the NPC. I'd also say Grey Wolf has a kind of heroic cast -- quiet and good with both a sword and a spell. And Tor Bladebearer and Kay fit the hero mold, but they're ancient history. That's it. Morningstar's just a professional, Aravis is an intellectual, Ernie and Kibi are likeable in a hobbit-sense but not how you usually think of world-savers. Flicker is Flicker.

Everett · Dec 14, 2010

Siuis said:
Maybe that's my issue? I think in mechanics. It's an extra layer of distance between me and the game world. As long as that's there, I won't be able to have a game like this...
And apparently, "geeking" is not a word, but Geelong is. Thank you, auto correct.

If that's your issue, then I agree: this campaign "works" because everyone involved has their hearts in it. That's why we read it. (Personally, it's the only thing I read on here -- Sepulgrave's SH, while impressive-looking, doesn't get me interested.)

And "geelong" on google and wikipedia only turns up a city in Australia. So what's it mean?

LightPhoenix · Dec 14, 2010

shilsen said:
It's interesting for me to read someone else saying that, since I decided a long time ago that Sepulchrave's campaign is a perfect example of the difference between great writing (which I think it is) and a great game (which, for me, it would absolutely not be).

I've thought the same thing at times as well. I can totally imagine Sep's game as an e-mail game, or a PbP game. Playing in it always seems a little unwieldy to me. Of course, that suggests the question of where it stops being a game, and where it starts being a shared story. If the actual game part of "role-playing game" is minimal and incidental, does that really make it a game anymore? Would (to continue using Sep's example) Mostin's attack really be playing the game, or would be it considered simply part of the story? Normally we speak of RPGs as blurring the line between game and story, but just like that line can sharpen with regards to the game side (ie, tabletop strategy games), it can sharpen with regards to story as well (ie, a shared narrative).

For me, and me alone, my feeling is that you need to be playing a game to consider it a game. That is, Mostin's "I Win" attack is not actually playing a game. I'd say that while Sagiro does a good job challenging his players, their group is starting to approach that line as well, and this battle is evidence of that. It seems to me that this is the biggest problem with "Epic" level games, and not the whole mechanical side of things. It also seems to me that is why the beginning levels are the most fun for people; it's where the lines between game and story are interwoven, where they are blurrier.

Quartz · Dec 15, 2010

Piratecat said:
As for the guy who escaped, we're okay with that. We did regret not getting to listen in as he reported back. Man, the look on his face when he realized there was no one to report to. . .

You mean your arch-villains don't have Clones, Contingent Resurrections, pending Lichdom, or other ways of returning from the Dead?