Can Air Elementals attack ten times a round in whirlwind form?

Noumenon

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #1

Air elementals fly 100 feet a round, and it sounds like they can fly into your space in whirlwind form and force you to make Reflex saves not to get swept up. So can an air elemental just move into your space over and over until you finally fail your reflex save? Five feet forward and back, for a maximum of ten reflex saves a round (five versus damage, five versus caught up)?

SRD: The elemental’s movement while in whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the elemental enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the elemental moves into or through the creature’s space.

Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the elemental might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (see table for details) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take the indicated damage. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round

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Also, a 10-foot-high whirlwind has a 5-foot base and 10-foot top, so it can hold five Medium characters, right?

 

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R

Runestar

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #2

Interesting...never thought of interpreting it that way before...not sure if there is any limitation to whirlwind working 1/round though...

 

frankthedm

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #3

Generally, abilities like this affect a target once each round. They are definitely not intended to function as juggle combos from a poorly balanced fighting game.

 

aboyd

Explorer

• Aug 1, 2008

• #4

frankthedm, provide some text in the RAW to back up that assertion?

 

frankthedm

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #5

aboyd said:

frankthedm, provide some text in the RAW to back up that assertion?

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The monsters' CRs should be quite evident that the elementals are not packing a single or double target 10-strike attack.

 

Noumenon

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #6

Definitely it would be cheesy to go back and forth again and again on the same player -- what it would look like in practice would be "the elemental sweeps through the room, catching up you -- and you -- you dodge -- the elemental flies to the back of the room and buffets the wizard -- then doubles back and whisks you up again." But the multiple exposures in one round is the heart of the rules question.

 

Noumenon

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #7

I ran this encounter in practice against my party (8th level monk, 7th level barbarian, cleric, and magic-missile sorceror vs a Large air elemental) and it was fine, although it made them sweat more than usual. The reflex save is easy -- a 16. And it never does 2d6 five times in a row, because you fail the other reflex save first, get swept up and stop taking damage. 2d6 is not a lot of damage, you can still attack at -2 after you get swept up, and the whirlwind form only lasts four rounds.

Even if it's not supposed to play this way, it's fun. All thrown around like you're in a fight with the Tasmanian Devil, trying to make Concentration checks in the windstorm, and not just Slam -- Slam -- Slam like fighting a fire elemental.

 

J

Jhaelen

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #8

Noumenon said:

Five feet forward and back, for a maximum of ten reflex saves a round (five versus damage, five versus caught up)?

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You can do even better. You could make a double move. I think with the right selection of feats you might even be able to run through the target space(s) repeatedly. Since the air elemental's movement doesn't provoke AOO it sounds like a great tactic.

 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer

• Aug 1, 2008

• #9

It can't do that to a person repeatedly in one round for the same reason you can't suffer damage for running through a wall of fire multiple times in one round. In the wall of fire's case, why should you take more damage hopping in and out of the flames than someone standing inside of them? In this case, why are you worse off getting placed inside and outside of the effect throughout those six seconds than someone who was enveloped by the effect for the whole round?

 

Noumenon

First Post

• Aug 1, 2008

• #10

The spell description for Wall of Fire just says "the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage +1 point of fire damage per caster level (maximum +20) to any creature passing through it." If you pass through three times, I think you would take damage three times.

What Jhaelen says about running makes me think I must be wrong in my interpretation somehow, because having to save up to 20 times in a round is ridiculous. But most effects that let you save once and then not be affected again right away, like a harpy's song, say so.