keterys
First Post
It's not a "realistic" solution, but it's pretty good for solving some of the 'five minute day' and other concerns:
No extended rests until you've hit two milestones.
No extended rests until you've hit two milestones.
Jonathan Tweet's extended rest solution
Anthony Jackson
First Post
That's fine if you have people in a dungeon. If you're doing something like a travel plot, forcing people to cover two milestones before resting often doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Generally, I prevent extended rest abuse by having monsters actually do things, rather than sit there waiting to be attacked. Even if the monsters don't have a specific evil plot with its own timeline, given an extended rest the monsters are likely to react to a PC intrusion by setting up ambushes, making alliances, and otherwise making sure that the next time the PCs enter the dungeon they probably trigger multiple simultaneous encounters.
keterys
First Post
His example is explicitly used for people in a travel plot, where his guys fought one thing along the route and something else four days later.
They were still able to rest and use their abilities, just not all of them. Like I said, it's not realistic, but it has the desired effect of "unbreaking" the balance of "1 encounter every X days" games
They were still able to rest and use their abilities, just not all of them. Like I said, it's not realistic, but it has the desired effect of "unbreaking" the balance of "1 encounter every X days" games
CapnZapp
Legend
This is a great idea!
(And for the record, the idea is to split the notion of "resting" from getting back resources. Not prevent adventurers from settling down for the night...)
You can rest after each encounter all you like, but mechanically you don't get to restore spent resources until you've actually accomplished something. (And of course, "accomplishing something" is the definition of reaching milestones) Makes mucho sense!
This greatly reduces your motivation for taking extended rests just because you can (when the adventure doesn't impose an element of stress).
Note: The DM should feel free to hand out "double milestones" in those rare cases where a single encounter is expected to take the heroes from fully healed to flat-out empty all by itself. (Meaning, you should never feel you're forced to enter a new encounter when you're out of Surges, just because you're out of options and need it to reach that second Milestone)
Anyone using Mr Tweet's rule in actual play?
(And for the record, the idea is to split the notion of "resting" from getting back resources. Not prevent adventurers from settling down for the night...)
You can rest after each encounter all you like, but mechanically you don't get to restore spent resources until you've actually accomplished something. (And of course, "accomplishing something" is the definition of reaching milestones) Makes mucho sense!
This greatly reduces your motivation for taking extended rests just because you can (when the adventure doesn't impose an element of stress).
Note: The DM should feel free to hand out "double milestones" in those rare cases where a single encounter is expected to take the heroes from fully healed to flat-out empty all by itself. (Meaning, you should never feel you're forced to enter a new encounter when you're out of Surges, just because you're out of options and need it to reach that second Milestone)
Anyone using Mr Tweet's rule in actual play?
erf_beto
First Post
Actually, this IS great for travelling! Camping in the woods, mountains, mosquito infested jungles or even muddy and wet swamps is NOT the same as resting among the fine satin sheets and feathered pillows of the duke's guest rooms! I had thought about outdoor resting never replenishing all surges, but this is an interesting idea: it almost makes travel plots play like dungeon crawls ("5 room dungeon" crawls, anyway...)
firesnakearies
Explorer
Interesting. I like it.
CapnZapp
Legend
This is my take on the Tweet rule:
* When the party takes an Extended Rest after achieving zero Milestones during the day, no uses of Daily powers or magic item dailies are restored.
* When the party takes an Extended Rest after achieving one Milestone during the day, 1-3 uses of Daily powers and 1-3 magic item dailies are restored (1 for heroic tier characters, 2 for paragon tier, and 3 for epic tier).
* When the party takes an Extended Rest after achieving two or more Milestones during the day, all uses of Daily powers or magic item dailies are restored as normal.
The Extended Rest otherwise works as per the rules (all Healing Surges are restored; the Action Point total is reset etc).
Yes, these rules relax the concept somewhat. One minor benefit is to avoid the slightly confusing wording "you can't take an extended rest unless...". What Mr Tweet means is that you don't get the benefits. As I read him, you can still rest (sleep etc) as often as you like, for as long as you like!
Zapp
PS. My intention isn't to use the above rules in isolation. I mean to use them in conjunction with the following rules on Healing Surges:
* Whenever a Milestone is reached, each character regains one Healing Surge (if not already at maximum) in addition to other benefits.
* At zero or negative Healing Surges, you are Exhausted: you get a -2 penalty to Speed, all attacks and all checks. You can keep using Healing Surges (you can "go negative"). As soon as you have one or more Surges again, you're not Exhausted anymore.
What do you think?
* When the party takes an Extended Rest after achieving zero Milestones during the day, no uses of Daily powers or magic item dailies are restored.
* When the party takes an Extended Rest after achieving one Milestone during the day, 1-3 uses of Daily powers and 1-3 magic item dailies are restored (1 for heroic tier characters, 2 for paragon tier, and 3 for epic tier).
* When the party takes an Extended Rest after achieving two or more Milestones during the day, all uses of Daily powers or magic item dailies are restored as normal.
The Extended Rest otherwise works as per the rules (all Healing Surges are restored; the Action Point total is reset etc).
Yes, these rules relax the concept somewhat. One minor benefit is to avoid the slightly confusing wording "you can't take an extended rest unless...". What Mr Tweet means is that you don't get the benefits. As I read him, you can still rest (sleep etc) as often as you like, for as long as you like!
Zapp
PS. My intention isn't to use the above rules in isolation. I mean to use them in conjunction with the following rules on Healing Surges:
* Whenever a Milestone is reached, each character regains one Healing Surge (if not already at maximum) in addition to other benefits.
* At zero or negative Healing Surges, you are Exhausted: you get a -2 penalty to Speed, all attacks and all checks. You can keep using Healing Surges (you can "go negative"). As soon as you have one or more Surges again, you're not Exhausted anymore.
What do you think?
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
You mean, it's like University all over again? Yay!TAs I read him, you can still rest (sleep etc) as often as you like, for as long as you like!
---
The house rule isn't too bad, I think. I might still provide the allowance to recover _some_ powers if you rest often enough, but CapnZapp suggestions should manage to do that already.
keterys
First Post
I've been thinking of running a... Sliders-ish style campaign, where the party teleports in to handle a localized problem then teleports back out to the next area. The amount of time they're in a place might vary considerably, but my thought was roughly to have each jaunt fit in a session's worth and if there's a shorter session I'd rather they didn't just have all dailies and resources available, necessarily. I could enforce that with staggered resting, but I think it'd be a good time to kick in his house rule.
So, they get back their surges and dailies after two milestones and a rest (short or extended). The only thing that truly uses the extended rest mechanic would be diseases at that point, I think.
That would make diseases potentially more debilitating if the milestones are far separated, but I'm not sure enough to really make any difference.
So, they get back their surges and dailies after two milestones and a rest (short or extended). The only thing that truly uses the extended rest mechanic would be diseases at that point, I think.
That would make diseases potentially more debilitating if the milestones are far separated, but I'm not sure enough to really make any difference.
Here's my idea:
*Unless two milestones have been reached, following things happen at extended rest:
-Regain 1d6+CON modifier HP
-Regain 1d4 Healing surges
-Roll d20 for each unspent daily power starting with lowest unspent daily power and continue towards highest. Roll items before actual powers. Regain first daily power on roll of 19-20 and continue. You may regain another on roll of 20 and then stop. Roll only once per power. You can potentially regain up to 2 powers, but are more likely to regain none.
After reading this, I find it a bit confusing, if You find difficulties understanding this, ask for explanations and examples.
P.S.
And of course, this is intended to stop players from abusing 5 min work day, and leaving dungeon after every two rooms so they could rest somewhere safe. If dungeon is cleared, or is at an obvious pause, let them rest normally even without 2 milestones.
*Unless two milestones have been reached, following things happen at extended rest:
-Regain 1d6+CON modifier HP
-Regain 1d4 Healing surges
-Roll d20 for each unspent daily power starting with lowest unspent daily power and continue towards highest. Roll items before actual powers. Regain first daily power on roll of 19-20 and continue. You may regain another on roll of 20 and then stop. Roll only once per power. You can potentially regain up to 2 powers, but are more likely to regain none.
After reading this, I find it a bit confusing, if You find difficulties understanding this, ask for explanations and examples.
P.S.
And of course, this is intended to stop players from abusing 5 min work day, and leaving dungeon after every two rooms so they could rest somewhere safe. If dungeon is cleared, or is at an obvious pause, let them rest normally even without 2 milestones.
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