Living 4th Edition Discussion Thread

Graf · Aug 25, 2008

I like your sheet. I think we need more detail. If I can I'll throw out my own version.

Graf · Aug 25, 2008

I went nuts on the math section.

I really really think we ought to focus on having the math section be something that shows you "how I got my +11 to whatever".

Big easy to read tables, etc etc.

The sheet above is for gaming and should be uncluttered and simple, but the math section should be easy to read, very organized and very complete.

[d]--[/d]

The idea of having tables with a section like "Math" where people write in whatever they feel like scares me.
I'd rather have one massive template that everyone uses.

Even if it's annoying for players to fill out? The point is to make it easy for DMs and judges to do their job.

Graf · Aug 25, 2008

Posted a higher level character... to see how it scales....

It's not a fast process, but it does produce a very readable math sheet.

I think we need to have more developed powers lines personally but I'm not sure how to do that in the wiki format yet....

[sblock=Sample powers]Rod of Corruption (Free!) ✦ Item
Crit: +1d6 damage
Property: Whenever your pact boon is triggered, instead of taking its normal benefit you can transfer your Warlock’s Curse to each enemy within 5 squares of the original target.
:ranged:

Dire Radiance (standard; at-will) ✦ Arcane, Implement, Radiant
Range 10 | +7 vs Fort | Hit: 1d6+5 radiant damage
Special: If the target moves nearer to Yanwer on its next turn it takes an extra 1d6+5 radiant
:ranged:

Eldritch Blast (standard; at-will) ✦ Arcane, Implement
Range 10 | +7 vs Ref | Hit: 1d10+5
Special: Basic ranged
:ranged:

Eyebite (standard; at-will) ✦ Arcane, Charm, Implement, Psychic
Range 10 | +6 vs Will | Hit: 1d6 + 4 psychic damage, and Yanwer is invisible to the target until the start of his next turn.

:ranged:

Starlock power from web enhancement cold and freeze(standard; encounter) ✦ Arcane, Implement
Range 10 | +7 vs Will(?)| Hit: 2d12+4 psychic damage and slow target
:ranged:

Etherial Stride (move; encounter) ✦ Arcane, Teleport
Personal | Effect: Teleport 3 squares, and gain a +2 power bonus to until end of next turn..
:ranged:

Frigid Darkness (standard; encounter) ✦ Arcane, Cold, Fear, Implement
Range 10 | +7 vs Fort | Hit: 2d8+5 damage and target AC -3 & grants combat advantage to you and all allies until end of next turn.

Armor of Agathys (standard; daily) ✦ Arcane, Cold
Personal | Effect: Gain 13 temporary hit points. Until the end of the encounter, an enemy that starts its turn adjacent to Yanwer takes 1d6 + 5 cold damage.

Bloodcut Leather Armor (minor; daily) ✦ Healing, Item
Power (Healing Surge): While you are bloodied, use this armor to gain resist 10 to all damage until the end of your next turn.
Cloak of Resistance (minor; daily) ✦ Item
Effect: Gain resist 5 to all damage until the start of your next turn.
Ironskin Belt (minor; daily) ✦ Item
Effect: Gain resist 5 to all weapon damage until the end of your next turn.[/sblock]

Graf · Aug 25, 2008

Do we need utility powers as their own line on the template? They're all either encounter or daily anyway...

Graf · Aug 25, 2008

The perceptive have already noted that there are three new polls

Rewarding DMs
Economics, Balance and Magic Items
Arguably the above poll is sucky... but there is disagreement on the facilitators as to whether we ought to count coins, whether we should use the 4e magic items system or try to bang together some kind of magic item system, etc.
Time for XP

covaithe · Aug 25, 2008

Graf said:
I went nuts on the math section.

I really really think we ought to focus on having the math section be something that shows you "how I got my +11 to whatever".

Big easy to read tables, etc etc.

Hmm. Yes, I think there are some real improvements there, but it might go a bit too far in the table direction. But only just a bit.

The main problem is that we're just not going to be able to have a table cell for every possible reason that a score might change; the tables will get huge and unreadable. Even including dedicated cells for bonuses that are rarely used makes the whole thing harder to read. At some point you have to draw the line and have a column for "Other (describe)". I'm leaning towards pushing feats and race into that "Other" column. In Quagmire's sheet, there are more than 60 table cells dedicated to feats, and only two of them aren't empty.

By the same token, I'd prefer to leave cells that have no information actually blank, rather than having "NA" or "--". I think it would be easier to read that way.

The ability score section is an improvement (in fact, I spotted an error because of the changes), and the skills table is mostly nice, too. I'm not sure about the powers; I think I'd rather have a detailed section like you describe. More below...

Graf said:
I think we need to have more developed powers lines personally but I'm not sure how to do that in the wiki format yet....

Agreed. I was experimenting with just linking to powers in the compendium, but frankly, I don't like the result. I like your sample powers section much better.

Graf said:
Do we need utility powers as their own line on the template? They're all either encounter or daily anyway...

Hmm... yes and no. I think we need to have a section that just lists which powers you have and how you got them, so the judges can easily see that you didn't forget to add your utility power when you hit level 2, or if you have three daily and three utility powers at level 2, it's okay because you're a wizard with the Expanded Spellbook feat.

But if we have a section where all the powers are outlined in detail as you describe, which I'm becoming convinced that we should, then no, I don't think we need to separate utility powers in there.

Atanatotatos · Aug 25, 2008

I'd like to note that checking correct power update is going to be harder for judges if there's not a "utility powers" entry...IMO

garyh · Aug 25, 2008

Atanatotatos said:
I'd like to note that checking correct power update is going to be harder for judges if there's not a "utility powers" entry...IMO

Good point, Atanatotatos.

Also, I'd prefer to see official class names - for example, "Warlock - Star Pact" instead of "Starlock."

Erekose13 · Aug 25, 2008

Wow that is really detailed. We'll definitely need templates to force people to fill all that information in. Personally I love extremely detailed sheets so that works for me. But I also agree with covaithe, when it comes to all the permutations of things that are bonuses to various abilities, defenses, skills, etc, we'll need to draw the line somewhere and use the other column. I think in general the Character Sheet on Wizards.com can serve as the basis on where to draw the line. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/charactersheets)