Isle of the Laughing Gallows - A gritty pirate isle for L4W

garyh said:

I think it's fine to say that the leadership in Bacarte are hobgoblins and the leadership in the Laughing Gallows are orcs, and that crews tend to fall into goblinoids and minotaurs with Bacarte and orcs and gnolls with Laughing Gallows. But I think it should be a fuzzy line with some of everything in each group - after all, these are pirates. If'n ye be a salty dog, they'll be takin' ye on. Also keeps PC concepts more open - no reason to totally say "no" to orcs from Bacarte or hobs from the Gallows.

EDIT: Forgot to mention kobolds. I'd toss them in with the orcs and gnolls on the Gallows. That give a trend of orcs, gnolls, and kobolds on the Gallows, and hobgoblins, bugbears, goblins, and minotaurs in Bacarte. A little more even that way.

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Exactly my intention: no absolutes, just general trends.

I'm not sure the distribution has to be even - I picture Bacarte as a much bigger place that the Gallows - so I wouldn't say kobolds necessarily has to predominantly be located on either isle (keep in mind the Gallows also features githyanki).

Dunamin said:

Exactly my intention: no absolutes, just general trends.

I'm not sure the distribution has to be even - I picture Bacarte as a much bigger place that the Gallows - so I wouldn't say kobolds necessarily has to predominantly be located on either isle (keep in mind the Gallows also features githyanki).

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Kobolds in the Gallows gives a small race to balance the goblins in Bacarte, but maybe that's "needless symmetry."

As for the gith on the Gallows, I'm not sure about that. I thought we'd kinda leaned towards having both gith together on a seperate island? No reason some of the gith from that island couldn't end up amongst either pirate island, of course.

garyh said:

Kobolds in the Gallows gives a small race to balance the goblins in Bacarte, but maybe that's "needless symmetry."

As for the gith on the Gallows, I'm not sure about that. I thought we'd kinda leaned towards having both gith together on a seperate island? No reason some of the gith from that island couldn't end up amongst either pirate island, of course.

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A more fleshed out place for the gith races in the setting was one of the elements I’ve wanted to pick up on – probably the next write-up I’ll propose for L4W. I did intend for githyanki to be present on more than the Gallows (different groups that are where they are for different reasons in fact).
I wouldn’t worry about a gith race on one island without the other, Planescape has kept them in separate outer planes for decades and it’s worked fine.

garyh said:

Forgot to mention kobolds. I'd toss them in with the orcs and gnolls on the Gallows. That give a trend of orcs, gnolls, and kobolds on the Gallows, and hobgoblins, bugbears, goblins, and minotaurs in Bacarte. A little more even that way.

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Gnolls would tend to eat smaller/weaker creatures for lunch though... Instead of bowing and scrapping like filthy goblins, Gallows kobold have chosen a more aggreessive path instead. Never alone, Gallows kobolds form closely-bound cliques called hydras (usually formed of 3 to 5 individuals of the same sex). Gallows hydras move as one, talk as one, fight as one big predator with many heads -- hence the name. Hydras are derfinitively not one creature though : in the absence of immediate danger internal squabbles are frequent and savage, with - to outsiders - unpredictable/unforseeable triggers. When danger lurks though, hydras are prenaturally cooperative, both internaly and with other hydras... and, as some have noted, danger *always* lurks in the Gallows.

What do you think? Tie a racial-regional benefit to that maybe?

EDIT : I'm sort of with Garyh on the gith subject though. My quibble is that they don't really fit the pirate islandf theme : you've got pirates, check, sahuagin grave and life-stealers, thieving birds and the bugbears that steal from them. All of that meshes extremely well together (great job, Dunamin!) EXCEPT for the Asylum of Silence. Frankly, I'd put it on an island all its own, one that can orbit the Gallows more or less closely if you like.

Binder Fred, going where the flow takes him.

Binder Fred said:

EDIT : I'm sort of with Garyh on the gith subject though. My quibble is that they don't really fit the pirate islandf theme : you've got pirates, check, sahuagin grave and life-stealers, thieving birds and the bugbears that steal from them. All of that meshes extremely well together (great job, Dunamin!) EXCEPT for the Asylum of Silence. Frankly, I'd put it on an island all its own, one that can orbit the Gallows more or less closely if you like.

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That's a fine point I hadn't thought of - they don't enter into the island dynamic as well as other elements. I'm convinced, I'll cut the Asylum entirely.

Just wanted to comment in more detail now that I have (or made) a second.

[URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/dunamin.html" said:

Dunamin[/URL]]
My impression was that legitimate business is ever on the rise (and noted to outnumber illegal affairs), with the hobgoblin merchants taking pains to clean out the worst of the rabble, and supposedly savage races showing a remarkable level of tolerance for each other.

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I tend to agree with Cov...

Cov said:

As hinted above, I have it in my head that the hobgoblin merchants are only barely civilized; a mafia-like organization that collectively recognizes that law and order, or at least the appearance of law and order, is good for business. They agressively punish anyone that jeopardizes their business, e.g. by getting caught pirating, smuggling, murdering, or whatever. But they're certainly not above cutting a few corners -- and throats -- if they feel the need. They're just careful to keep it quiet.

I think it's quite possible for mafia-Bacarte to coexist with a more peaceful, civilized version of Bacarte, depending on exactly what corners the PCs are sniffing into and how the DM feels like playing it.

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Exactly how crazy Bacarte is under the surface can be undefined.... and may have changed with the dissappearance of the five and the increasing strength of the Empire of Hzaka.

Dunamin said:

That's a fine point I hadn't thought of - [the gith] don't enter into the island dynamic as well as other elements. I'm convinced, I'll cut the Asylum entirely.

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Gith are the original DnD pirates... they sailed the astral plane chopping of silver cords long before anybody else. And gith-as-pirates/raiders appeared in both Spelljammer and (I think) darksun. (Though everybody's a raider in ds really).

I don't know where the text went (and I can't recall the detals clearly) but we should definitely consider keeping the Asylum in some context; off island, or a rogue group of gith who've abandoned their fued (or taken it in a different direction)...

Anyway I've added The Isle to the wiki.
Except from some formating and mini-notes it's basically as-is, save for a section on history and races (some sythesis of ideas from other folks, some little tweaks of my own)

The new subchapter on the wiki about races on the Gallows is very nice. I particularly like how the gnoll cackling adds more weight to the island name. My original basis was to combine the idea of pirates escaping justice (laughing at the gallows), and turning the punishment on its head by applying it to those who wrong them (betraying the secrets that keep the isle a haven for pirates). I figured that when the hanged victim was found, he/she would have a smile on their face, to add to the myth.

However, I would recommend opening this section with a few lines that point out that there're quite a number of races on the Gallows. "Kobolds are the third race", gives the impression that the only races on the isle are those listed.

Graf said:

Gith are the original DnD pirates... they sailed the astral plane chopping of silver cords long before anybody else. And gith-as-pirates/raiders appeared in both Spelljammer and (I think) darksun. (Though everybody's a raider in ds really).

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That was also my main reason for including giths on the Gallows. I think the problem is that I approached it from the wrong angle; I wrote them as standard Astral empire githyankis stationed on the isle with waning discipline slowly turning a subset to piracy, whereas it would have been more prudent to work with Spelljammer-esque Pirates of Gith who are quite culturally distinct from typical githyanki.
I’ll do some research on the latter and come up with a different take of their inclusion on the Gallows.

Here’s the Asylum of Silence as it was:

Asylum of Silence
Isolated far from Slydove Bay and sheltered a good deal by the mountainside you can find a lone githyanki fortress, termed the Asylum of Silence by Nesters. Having supposedly fled their Astral homes beyond this world in the aftermath of a great disaster, this warband crashed with a giant flying ship and found themselves stranded for years on the island. To this day they remain holed up in a well-guarded fortress and keep silent of their activities there, though spies have reported gith excavation sites nearby where strange relics are uncovered.
Usually no one gets into the Asylum unless they have trade goods, information, or other means that could interest the commander Myn’Keth - a stern and deadly woman with powers over the mind. The gith have been known to walk the streets of the Nest, usually in heavily armed squads, though they remain tightlipped about motives for dealing with the pirates.
Most giths on the Gallows are loyal soldiers under their commander, though a few individuals have been known to desert and turn to piracy after decades of waning discipline in the company of Nesters.

Good comments all. I've tried to reflect everything, but it's your idea so... you know. Go nuts on the wiki if you like.

Dunamin said:

I’ll do some research on the latter and come up with a different take of their inclusion on the Gallows.

Here’s the Asylum of Silence as it was:

Asylum of Silence
Isolated far from Slydove Bay and sheltered a good deal by the mountainside you can find a lone githyanki fortress, termed the Asylum of Silence by Nesters. Having supposedly fled their Astral homes beyond this world in the aftermath of a great disaster, this warband crashed with a giant flying ship and found themselves stranded for years on the island. To this day they remain holed up in a well-guarded fortress and keep silent of their activities there, though spies have reported gith excavation sites nearby where strange relics are uncovered.
Usually no one gets into the Asylum unless they have trade goods, information, or other means that could interest the commander Myn’Keth - a stern and deadly woman with powers over the mind. The gith have been known to walk the streets of the Nest, usually in heavily armed squads, though they remain tightlipped about motives for dealing with the pirates.
Most giths on the Gallows are loyal soldiers under their commander, though a few individuals have been known to desert and turn to piracy after decades of waning discipline in the company of Nesters.

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I confess to thinking this is perfectly fine as is. But obviously we could do something else too.
(Mykonos' Sanctuary also has the Imperium. Kythira has both gnomes and mangroove trees and ancient eladrin ruins and the shadowrift. They aren't all on one theme.)

I punted a bit, saying that "people scoff at the idea that the Silent Asylum is located on the IotLG". So it's not there but there are rumors....

Sorry for taking so long to respond, got caught up in studies and my next L4W project.

Graf said:

I confess to thinking this is perfectly fine as is. But obviously we could do something else too.
(Mykonos' Sanctuary also has the Imperium. Kythira has both gnomes and mangroove trees and ancient eladrin ruins and the shadowrift. They aren't all on one theme.)

I punted a bit, saying that "people scoff at the idea that the Silent Asylum is located on the IotLG". So it's not there but there are rumors....

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That's fine with me too, and the recent additions on the wiki look swell.

Still, I'll try to think of an alternative take on the Asylum, with more Spelljammer-pirate-feel and possibly a more active hand in affairs of the Gallows, just to get more options on the table.