Let's read the entire run

Orius

Legend
Some universal rules: Speaking of creating your own world, Roger Moore goes into some more general discussion on doing just that. Interestingly, it seems like playing the same characters under different DM's, who would then take the game in very different directions, was more common back then.

Well it was about a quarter century before WoW, after all. ;)
 

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(un)reason

Legend
Dragon Issue 54: October 1981

part 1/2

84 pages. So its another october. However, this time they've mostly skipped the horror theme for business as usual. Several other significant things take place in this issue, however. Read on and discover, my friends.

In this issue:

Out on a limb: A letter supporting their decision to do artist profiles and asking people to not expect every article to please them, as they are covering a pretty wide range of stuff.
A letter criticizing issue 52, saying it had hardly anything of use to him. Contrasting opinions as ever.
A letter asking for more articles on medieval weaponry. Don't get them started. Do we really need to hear about the dozens of different kinds of polearms again in exquisite detail?
A long and detailed rant on the lack of realism in the modules they've been publishing, criticizing the fact that they seem to be designed entirely to create a challenge to adventurers and could never exist as a functioning location with a proper ecology. Oh man, you're opening a can of worms here. A battle that will wage throughout the decades, and consume many in its throes. One of the most fiercely fought fronts of the war of gamism vs simulationism. One that still wages to his day. Which side will you join?
A letter criticizing them for not publishing their so called regular articles regularly enough, as they frequently skip months. They respond by saying if things were too regular, they'd get bored. And they don't want that.

Down-to-earth divinity: Well hello again, Mr Greenwood. What have we here? The very first mention of Elminster the sage in these hallowed pages? The second mention of the forgotten realms by name, and the details of the Torilian pantheon. (who are mostly as they have remained, deaths, usurpations, and metaplot silliness aside, but also includes several extra guys from preexisting sources, such as Aslan (yeah, there's no way that's going to make it into the official books) at this point.) This is a very significant article indeed in historical terms, revealing tons of stuff about the current state of the D&D multiverse as a whole, and Eds own world (drow are legendary and virtually unknown on the surface world in the Realms? Ahahahahaha. Robert Salvadore has a lot to answer for. ) It's also pretty good on its own merits, offering you solid advice on how to create a pantheon for your own game. Portfolios, racial demographics, relationships with other deities. You've got to consider this stuff. Ed obviously has, and that's why his world managed the depth it has.

Ruins: The midpoint between dungeoneering and wilderness adventuring, ruined cities provide a rich seam of places to explore (and loot) in their own right. But you do need to design them quite differently from dungeons. This article contains an extensive list of the things and monsters you're most likely to find there. With a few random tables, of course. While technically system free, it is heavily tied into D&D's implied setting, with sages, assassins, and wizards towers. Still, seems like it should be usefull.

These are the Breaks: Weapon breakage rules. Another thing that'll mostly irritate your players if you introduce it. Will you hurt yourself? Will it fly off and hit another PC. Oddly enough, it's got no chance of hurting a member of the other side, which seems a little weird. Combined with the probabilities. (4% chance of something going horribly wrong every single attack) I really don't think this is very well designed, and would make combat altogether too farcical. Do you really want the benny hill theme music to be the most appropriate scene setter to your dramatic battles?

Larger than Life: This month's near pantheon is the righteous robbers of Liang shan po. Led by sung chiang, the 36 stars of heaven, and the 72 stars of earth, 5 of which are fully statted up; they seem occupy a similar place to robin hood and his men, only with more wuxia special powers. A little less overpowered than last issue, they still all have several stats at 18 each. Facing them would be a serious challenge for even the most powerful party.

Sage advice is the only column giving a token nod to the usual october horror theme.
If a golem is decapitated, is it still functional (oh yes. It can even breathe on you. Be very afraid)
How exactly do you become a lich ( there are plenty of variants on the process. You don't have to use Len's version. Larva are not neccecarily essential. )
What undead are harmed by sunlight (vampires are the only ones destroyed by it. Others are just weakened by it, and avoid it where possible. )
Can detect evil detect a polymorphed demon. (evil things still show up as evil, no matter what shape they use. ) You need other spells to hide or disguise your spiritual nature.
Are asmodus' rod or geryons horn artifacts? How many charges do they have? (no, they aren't. The usual number, but they can recharge them, so if you don't take them down in one encounter, you're in the :):):):).
Can magic resistance be reduced to a negative number if your level is high enough. If so what effects would that have? (No. Zero is as low as you can go.)
How do you kill a vampire with wooden stakes? Can you kill them without them? (through the heart, you dolt. Have you learned nothing from pop culture. That or sunlight. Conventional weapons will not stop them for good. And no, you can't create holy water inside another creatures body. )
Do undead breathe? (no)
Can paladins and high level monks get lycanthropy (yes. Magical diseases can overpower magical resistances. )
Do iron/silver weapons damage demons/devils even when they need pluses to hit them (yes. It's a special vulnerability. Take advantage of it, because you'll need it with all the powers they have. )
(when someone with a strength bonus attacks a skeleton with a piercing weapon, do they add their strength(yes, but before the halving takes place)
Are fiends immune to sleep and charm (most of them aren't technically, but your odds of actually getting through their resistances are pretty slim)
What happens when a succubus drains an energy level (same thing that happens when undead drain an energy level. Kiss goodbye to all that experience, those spells, those hit points. )
 


Obryn

Hero
:lol: Hmm. Has anyone ever pulled the "this dungeon was recently cleared by another band of adventurers that got there first" trick in their games. It'd be both creepy and annoying to this kind of player if the other party were the kind that only took the treasure, and left all the mundane loot like that behind.
Sorry to pseudo-necromance from a month ago. :)

Anyway, I did this, more or less, in my Arcana Evolved game. The party needed to get a hold of a specific hammer in order to destroy an evil artifact. The hammer was in the possession of a cult - not evil, just devoted - and they wouldn't give it up. They stole the hammer, and then returned it afterwards. Unfortunately, one of the PCs sabotaged the destruction, and saved a tiny piece of it, which turned into a major plot-point.

Game-time, 6 months later, they needed to return to the town to get the hammer again, thanks to the abovementioned PC. The town, though, had been thoroughly destroyed by a demonic invasion - one of the side-effects of a previously-failed adventure. They found the temple already empty; a different group of adventurers had already thoroughly looted the temple and sold the hammer to a merchant down south.

...and it went on from there. But yes, I did use this in one of my campaigns, and it went over very well. :)

-O
 

el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
There he is. I've actually haroured a secret liking for the old bugger ever since way back when...

I have to say, though I feel FR jumped the shark at some point at the outset of 2E - those original FR articles on various topics in DRAGON were of great inspiration to me in my own nascent world-building attempts, and ole Ed G really gave me a model to work with, even if over the years I veered away from it - but that sense of layers of history and lots of cultural detail? I still go for that. . .

They were my favorite articles for a long time. . . And I even liked "The Wizards 3" articles that came much later because they gave a sense of three kinds of settings and what they like. . . I always felt that Greyhawk came out sounding the most appealing to me in those. . . But I like grit. :)
 

(un)reason

Legend
Dragon Issue 54: October 1981

part 2/2

Giants in the earth: What?! Oookay, looks like they haven't replaced giants in the earth, but supplemented it. Which means double the dose of overpowered mythological and fictional characters this month. Man, this is irritating. Anyway, this months characters are E.R. Eddison's four lords of demonland, and Ursula LeGuin's Gaveral Rocannon.

Dragons's bestiary: Boggarts (are missing their name at the top, so you have to read the description to figure it out. Probably another prank on their part) are the usual malicious faerie types. Not particularly dangerous in combat, but a pain in the ass to catch up too and hit.
Stroan are weird insect thingies with several interesting special powers. Another thing with an extensive amount of ecology, and even religion, they seem a prime subject for developing further. Shame that never happened.
Incubi are another monster that should be completely obvious, and are just an excuse to give us succubi with slightly higher combat stats. Demons are not an equal rights society. :rolleyes:

Beware the Jabberwock: Ha. D&D stats for this particular fictional monster. Which obviously requires a bit of extrapolation by the developer. And as ever, once you've given something stats, it seems a good deal less scary (apart from hecatoncheires) and wondrous. The designer seems unsure if he should be explaining the surreality of the original source, or exploiting it. And as a result, it fails to enthrall.

Thieves guild designers notes: The creators of the system and magazine talk about their intents for the system and plans for future products. Loose leaf books that you reassemble yourself? Another experiment that will pass into history unlamented. Another bit of interesting historical perspective here.

The dragon's augury: Thieves guild also gets reviewed here. Focussed around, well, the class that you would expect, and scenarios for them, it is both more and less complex than D&D in various ways. I suppose it might not be as focussed as some modern indie games, but it's certainly a step down that path.
Barbarian prince is a solo adventure game in which you reclaim your kingdom. It offers rather more freedom of choice than most pick your path games, and offers a rather more badass protagonist. The reviewer seems to rather like it.

Cavern quest is this months module, a 14 page solo tournament adventure. And it is a horrible railroad, in which you can't help taking damage, it's just a matter of how much. I suppose when there's no GM, you can't manage the same freedom of choice.

Fiction: Abomination, by D. Aaron Achen. A great story of the healing of a corrupted swamp, from the point of view of the sentient patch of land. Some great imagery here, and a real sense of atmosphere and dynamic tension, as you're never sure who you should be supporting. I really like this one.

Minarian Legends: This month, Glenn talks about the pirates of Rombune. More interesting setting detail in what is becoming one of the most filled-in settings of the era.

Cash and carry for cowboys: Glenn Rahman gets a second article published straight away, expanding on the equipment list for boot hill. Because players always want things that the rulebooks don't think of. This'll take you all the way from derringers to tombstones. (because you wouldn't just leave dead PC's to rot, would you, and burials are expensive. ) Another one of those articles that may be useful, but still makes for dry reading.

Simulation corner: Part 3 of their series on game design. They further tackle the subject of realism, and how to apply it. Obviously true realism is impossible. And a lot of the time people synonymize realism with quality when reviewing games, even though that is not the case. Historical accuracy and realistic physics are also not neccecarily linked. I am not overly enthralled.

Bazaar of the Bizarre: 13 more Quaals feather tokens. Quite the useful little pieces of kit, aren't they. People ought to appreciate them more. Plus two magical maces, and an undead trapping bottle. Careful with the last one. Letting things out without the power to control them is always problematic.

The electric eye: Another quiz this month, this time about the history of computers and how they work. As ever, much of this stuff is seriously outdated. Which is only interesting if you care about the minutinae of old computers.

Whats new's infestation of dragons has spilled over into the entire damn issue, amusingly. How many are there lurking throughout the magazine? Try and figure it out. Growf growf.

Orcwardness: Another parody article about the more irritating idiosyncracies of certain gamers. Nothing you haven't seen already, probably.

Dragonmirth has more dragon related jokes.

Wormy introduces the book-eating pterodactyl, another character who would somehow become a regular in this crazy soap opera. How did Dave Trampier come up with this stuff?

Fineous fingers' plot is brought to a rather abrupt close as JD leaves for Adventure Gaming magazine, to work with Tim again. Everyone sighs, some with disappointment, some with relief that they no longer have to deal with such a flaky columnist. At least he gets the chance for a proper goodbye, unlike the other comics that were unceremoniously cut. (yeah, I'm still not amused about that) His story isn't over yet.

A purple worm busts into A D&D Adventure this month.

Another issue with articles ranging from the sublime to the utterly tedious. One thing's for sure, with JD gone, and Elminster on board, its not going to be the same from now on. We've just taken a big step away from old skool to, if not the current generation, a different one anyway. How soon these things happen. Soon we'll be nostalgic for the old ways, even with all their flaws and unreliability.
 

Orius

Legend
A letter criticizing issue 52, saying it had hardly anything of use to him. Contrasting opinions as ever.

Yup standard Dragon letter #5. There's something like a half a dozen of these each year it seems.

A letter asking for more articles on medieval weaponry. Don't get them started. Do we really need to hear about the dozens of different kinds of polearms again in exquisite detail?

Yeah, the Bohemian earspoon just isn't enough. I don't mind a variety of weapons in D&D, and I don't mind the nods to realism, but the Gygaxian polearms did get a bit overboard really. There's really not enough mecanical differences between them to make a difference, and they're often sub-par anyway, so players rarely pick them except for stuff like halberds. Besides, even if polearms were commonly used in the Middle Ages, they're generally peasant weapons, so they're not sexy to players. And it also reflects the game's evolution. When you've got parties with a dozen PCs going through narrow dungeons, it helps to have a second rank who need weapons with a longer reach. As the D&D party shrank to the norm of 4-6 players, the second rank is eliminated, and the front line fighters aren't going to be using slow, weak polearms.

Down-to-earth divinity: Well hello again, Mr Greenwood. What have we here? The very first mention of Elminster the sage in these hallowed pages? The second mention of the forgotten realms by name, and the details of the Torilian pantheon. ... This is a very significant article indeed in historical terms, revealing tons of stuff about the current state of the D&D multiverse as a whole, and Eds own world ... It's also pretty good on its own merits, offering you solid advice on how to create a pantheon for your own game. Portfolios, racial demographics, relationships with other deities. You've got to consider this stuff. Ed obviously has, and that's why his world managed the depth it has.

Greenwood's articles have always been pretty good. Even in the later stuff, he provides a great deal of flavor and detail, and though I don't play the Realms, there's still ideas there that can be yoinked.

Ruins: The midpoint between dungeoneering and wilderness adventuring, ruined cities provide a rich seam of places to explore (and loot) in their own right. But you do need to design them quite differently from dungeons. This article contains an extensive list of the things and monsters you're most likely to find there. With a few random tables, of course. While technically system free, it is heavily tied into D&D's implied setting, with sages, assassins, and wizards towers. Still, seems like it should be usefull.

Sounds like something that would still be useful even today. Ruined cities are a must for a campaign that's favored by sword & sorcery, since they tend to pop up a lot. You've got to set up different areas of the cities where the various classes live, and there's going to be things like houses, temples, workshops and so on, so they're not going to look like a dungeon. And random tables are always useful for a DM trying to create something from scratch.

These are the Breaks: Weapon breakage rules. Another thing that'll mostly irritate your players if you introduce it.

Sounds like another nerf to me.

I have to say, though I feel FR jumped the shark at some point at the outset of 2E - those original FR articles on various topics in DRAGON were of great inspiration to me in my own nascent world-building attempts, and ole Ed G really gave me a model to work with, even if over the years I veered away from it - but that sense of layers of history and lots of cultural detail? I still go for that. . .

I think it's the whole family-friendly attitude of 2e that hurt things, get rid of the really nasty evil gods and replace them with a bumbling clown, put idiotic villains in the metaplot, and so on.

Incubi are another monster that should be completely obvious, and are just an excuse to give us succubi with slightly higher combat stats. Demons are not an equal rights society. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but incubi just never seem to catch on. And I think that's for one reason: the predominantly male player base of D&D.
 

(un)reason

Legend
Dragon Issue 55: November 1981

part 1/2

84 pages. We get another look at their second class mailing figures this month. And this time the scan is legible. Their current circulation is up to 60,000 as of last month, with average printings per magazine over the last year of 45,000. Which means they've approximately doubled their readership again. Pretty good. They also welcome a new addition to the staff, congratulate another one on getting married, and look forward to the D&D sales blitz this christmas. It should be a good one for TSR. How many of you guys got your roleplaying start as part of a christmas present?

In this issue:

Out on a limb: A letter criticizing the monk articles in issue 53, and asking for more separation between roleplaying fluff and design crunch.
A letter complaining about all the errors and inconsistencies in the D&D books, but also wishing that people wouldn't argue so much about which game was best or worst.
A letter of generalized praise. Always room for one of them to get published.
A letter encouraging playing with players expectations, not letting them know exactly what is going on statistically with their characters and the things that they face.
Another letter decrying ridiculously overpowered characters. Rather a stock selection this month, isn't it.

Fiend folio Findings: Ed Greenwood expresses his disappointment with the latest tome of monsters, calling it inconsistent in tone, lacking in setting integration, full of silly names, unclear in description on many monsters, and a whole bunch of other unappealing things. Alan Zumwalt is a somewhat more satisfied customer, enjoying the illustrations, but wishing there were more extra planar monsters, stuff from magazines made official, and fewer rehashed hybrids. Finally, Don Turnbull, the guy primarily responsible for the book, gives his rebuttal. He didn't put monsters from recent Dragon or White Dwarf issues in because the book has been completed and in legal limbo for 2 years before they could get it published. Some of the things that you found unclear are in there, you just needed to look closer. And monsters with unpronouncable names are perfectly justifiable, particularly if it's what they call themselves. But yeah, there are some things he wishes he'd done better. Pleasing to see Dragon isn't afraid to call out the flaws in TSR's products. It's good evidence that they still aren't just a house organ.

New theories for old monsters: Dinosaurs! One of those things that blurs the boundary between reality and fantasy when included. This article gives stats for lots of them, including all the usual suspects, revised in light of new scientific discoveries. What, you want realisticaly accurate dinosaurs in your magical fantasy? I think that should be the least of your worries.

From the sorceror's scroll returns after quite a substantial absence. Gary apologizes for this, and lays out his plans for the future. The temple of elemental evil is delayed again, because he's been busy making this year's tournament module (the lost caverns of tsojcanth. Another one many of you will remember fondly) Lost of other greyhawk stuff is in the works, including city and castle of greyhawk. Lets hope you don't suffer so many delays on those. ;) :( We also get a reiteration of the Oerth racial groups from issue 52, with some more stuff on their favoured dress and other little details. Which is pretty interesting. Looks like he's finally realized there's a market for full-on world building, and is working to make up for lost time.

Robin hood and his merry men get statted up. Not under the Giants in the earth or the Larger than life banner, curiously enough. I wonder if that means we'll be getting three helpings of twinked-out NPC's this month? That would be rather excessive, and not pleasing at all.

The coming of the sword: Niall's 9th story in the magazine is a prequel, telling the tale of how he acquired his signature sword. Which means no dubious demon goddess to tell him what to do, and no army to help him out when things go south. Instead, he falls in with an also pretty dubious mage-queen, ands goes adventuring in search of her ancient abandoned kingdom. Is this commentary on his personality or a persistent psychological quirk of the author behind him? Either way, it's fairly amusing.

The creature of rhyl: This month's mini-module is our first that is explicitly for basic D&D rather than AD&D. Not that it makes that much difference really. This is a rather odd module, in that the dungeon complex is largely abandoned, yet there are tons of magical items hidden around the place. This means that as long as they can survive (or avoid) the rather tough final encounter, this is a good place for low level characters to power up. It'll definitely be a change of pace compared to the caves of chaos. But if more dungeons were like this the game would get dull very quickly.

The electric eye: Another really short article from mark this month, as he gives the answers to last months quiz. So short, in fact, that I have nothing else to say on the matter.

Martian metals' advert is upside down (ie, the right way up) this month. Blame Tim Kask for that, as they say in the advert itself.
 

el-remmen

Moderator Emeritus
Fiend folio Findings: Ed Greenwood expresses his disappointment with the latest tome of monsters, calling it inconsistent in tone, lacking in setting integration, full of silly names, unclear in description on many monsters, and a whole bunch of other unappealing things. Alan Zumwalt is a somewhat more satisfied customer, enjoying the illustrations, but wishing there were more extra planar monsters, stuff from magazines made official, and fewer rehashed hybrids. Finally, Don Turnbull, the guy primarily responsible for the book, gives his rebuttal. He didn't put monsters from recent Dragon or White Dwarf issues in because the book has been completed and in legal limbo for 2 years before they could get it published. Some of the things that you found unclear are in there, you just needed to look closer. And monsters with unpronouncable names are perfectly justifiable, particularly if it's what they call themselves. But yeah, there are some things he wishes he'd done better. Pleasing to see Dragon isn't afraid to call out the flaws in TSR's products. It's good evidence that they still aren't just a house organ.

Personally, I think it is the best monster book ever. I still look for opportunities to bust out some weird puppies from that baby, and have a goal of using as many as possible in my current campaign (and used quite a few in my last one).
 

Yalius

First Post
Dragon Issue 55: November 1981

part 1/2

Yay! My first ever issue! I've been waiting for this one to show.

Thing I remember most clearly when I got this was wondering just what the story was behind the cover art. Just what did the jester use to get the victim to come along for the ride?
 

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