WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs

jdcash · Apr 7, 2009

This is the first time I have ever posted on these (or any) boards. Besides the general urk that I am feeling after recently purchasing many 4e manuals on PDF with the expectation I could recover them later, my real issue is that I use my nightly "game time" as a release from the stress of the day. I look forward to reading the boards here and to all the excitement and ideas that are generated as a result. Instead I am thinking about the money that I may have just spent under false pretenses. BOOOOOOOOO!

I'm off to find another topic.....

ShinHakkaider · Apr 7, 2009

joethelawyer said:
It just hit me what this dumbass decision is all about. Sales are less than projected and a scapegoat is needed. Think about it. It makes no sense otherwise. But if you have a boss chewing your butt off, because his boss is chewing his off, because the numbers aren't there, you need to do something, anything, to make it look like you're adressing the problem.

Since losses due to pirating are impossible to prove, (and in fact pirating may lead to more sales in the long run,) its also impossible to disprove. So the lackey gives the idea to the boss who dutifully passes it along to his boss, and they all gain another business quarter to hope that something changes. The lackeys and low level bosses now its all BS, but hey, they get to keep their jobs for another few months.

Who else here hs worked in a big corporate environment---come on---doesnt it make sense in a dumb corporate kinda way?

You know Joe, I'd thought the same thing. But posting something like that here at Enworld is dangerous in that the pro-4E crowd will now attack you for speculating about the sales of 4E. I mean as long as you speculate that the sales arent doing well. If you were saying that the sales are brisk and awesome then that seems to be OK here.

Anyway I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I think that the hardcore 4E supporters are going to buy the books regardless in PDF or hard copy form.

jdrakeh · Apr 7, 2009

xechnao said:
Sorry to derail but I am really curious why did GW do this? What was there to gain? You mentioned something earlier about IP control but I really fail to understand what this might be about.

Honestly? I have no idea. If you scroll up a little bit, though, I attached their policy sheet in which they try to explain it themselves.

Cadfan · Apr 7, 2009

Voadam said:
As I said, even if RPGNow promised what it could not guarantee, WotC is taking away the redownloads that we paid for. WotC got paid by us through rpgnow for that access.

Regardless of whether rpgnow is blameless or culpatory here, WotC is taking away our access to legal pdfs we bought and that is why I am angry at WotC.

RPGNow wants to offer them to us, but they are capitulating to WotC.

WotC is taking away our stuff and doesn't want us to have it.

I really don't know what to say to this.

WOTC's reason to cut off pdf sales is kind of lame. But the idea that WOTC is responsible for RPGNOW's promises of ongoing product support is tin foil hat stuff.

Obryn · Apr 7, 2009

ShinHakkaider said:
You know Joe, I'd thought the same thing. But posting something like that here at Enworld is dangerous in that the pro-4E crowd will now attack you for speculating about the sales of 4E. I mean as long as you speculate that the sales arent doing well. If you were saying that the sales are brisk and awesome then that seems to be OK here.

Yes, yes, you're oppressed and ill-treated.

Everyone should freely make all the statements they want without any good evidence to back up their position, and should never be called on them. That sounds awesome!

-O

Scribble · Apr 7, 2009

joethelawyer said:
Who else here has worked in a big corporate environment---come on---doesn't it make sense in a dumb corporate kinda way?

Eh... I work in a corporate environment, and I think the only part that makes sense is it's a dumb idea. (Not yours the idea of taking the pdfs off.)

More then likely it isn't lack of sales altogether, but instead:

Lack of sales of the official pdfs + an increase in pirating.

It's pobably part of soemthing that's been tracked since day 1. Maybe someone's quarterly report finally showed the pirate to official pdf ratio was in the cancel now range...

What it doesn't account for is that it's new, so obviously more people will be pirating it. (especialy if it is popular.)

Jdrakeh said:
Ah! I see where I'm confused. As far as I know, you haven't had to own a physical brick and mortar store to order WotC books from a distributor or sell WotC PDFs (or other products) online, you only have to possess a retail license (and whatever else your government requires you to obtain/file in order to sell goods).

It's been there, it's just that since it was "enforced" through the distributers and not WoTC lots of places slipepd through... Like amazon and walmart. I'm guessing the distributors didn't want to loose out on the BIG chains if they enforced the policy.

Even the send us a picture of your store requirement was there. (I a one time briefly thought about opening a store, and was doing a bunch of research about it before coming to my senses.

)

ProfessorCirno · Apr 7, 2009

Piratecat said:
What I find most annoying about this is that the honest people are being punished, and it's not going to slow down the dishonest people one bit.

Annoying? That's what I find most hilarious about this! To be fair, I'd find it equally hilarious no matter who makes this incredibly boneheaded decision.

joethelawyer · Apr 7, 2009

ShinHakkaider said:
You know Joe, I'd thought the same thing. But posting something like that here at Enworld is dangerous in that the pro-4E crowd will now attack you for speculating about the sales of 4E. I mean as long as you speculate that the sales arent doing well. If you were saying that the sales are brisk and awesome then that seems to be OK here.

Anyway I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I think that the hardcore 4E supporters are going to buy the books regardless in PDF or hard copy form.

Yeah I thought about that--after I hit the submit button of course. So I went back to the post you quoted and added this section in to attempt to have this not turn into an edition war...

By sales being less than projected, don't get me wrong. They can be through the roof. But if they are less than some spreadsheet said they had to be, based on factors not at all related to reality, heads will roll.

We'll see if it works...

resistor · Apr 7, 2009

What really pisses me off are the "classic" products that are being pulled.

I'm a big fan of a lot of the old 2e settings, and have been slowly accumulating PDF of them on Paizo's store. WotC doesn't sell these in hard copy, and hasn't in a very long time.

The only options are "buy the PDF" or "pirate the PDF," and now they're taking the former away...

JohnRTroy · Apr 7, 2009

That's pretty much exactly what piracy paranoia always does: screw over the folks who play by the rules, without hurting the pirates at all.

I can't call it a simple case of that, for the following reasons.

First of all, did any of the honest people do anything to stop piracy? Did you report any torrents to WoTC? Did you try to encourage people not to do it. Did you explain to your friends about this? I'm sure some did, but I'm sure others didn't and even encouraged piracy, while others turned a blind eye. And those that will now "turn to piracy" to spite WoTC don't really have, IMO, a very good grip on ethics or morality.

Secondly, this does deter pirates somewhat. The WoTC benefit from printer proofs and Acrobat features. Somebody would have to scan the physical book and it's likely to be an inferior copy.

And thirdly--I fully suspect ISPs and other will start being able to detect piracy. Let's see where we are 10 years from now.

As annoying and disappointing this is, I have a feeling that you'll be seeing more of this occuring. Today, the AP announced they are taking steps to prevent their stories from being used without compensation--in part to protect their newspaper subscribers.

The two biggest problems with the Internet revolution were the following: companies focused more on market share rather than how they got paid, which gave an expectation, and people like Stallman, Lessig, etc., started a memeplex that made people think that created content was worthless and should be gratis for people to use. This has created a sort of entitlement culture in the world, as well as enforcing a somewhat naive belief that people should create "just for the art", and that any big corporation that produces content is evil, IP laws are "stupid", etc.

I suspect the economic downturn is going to cause some harsh realities, and you can expect more companies making these unpopular decisions.