WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs

Aberzanzorax · Apr 6, 2009

Jeez.

It's like WotC is actively TRYING to hurt their public image with customers.

Cadfan · Apr 6, 2009

Jack99 said:
Arguably you have the right to the product purchased, along with the number of downloads that are made available to you?

mach1.9pants said:
Woh, that is not good.

I haven't got any as yet but will do soon when my eReader arrives. How can they stop you getting copies of PDFs you have already purchased????????

jdrakeh said:
If this does come to pass, somebody up in Seattle needs to credit me for my past purchases of WotC product that still have downloads remaining. Changing an agreement after somebody purchases things might be legal but it's still a load of horse pucky.

Disclaimer: this is based on my understanding of sales in general and statements in this thread, not any specific knowledge. This isn't legal advice, etc, etc, etc.

Your contract is probably with RPGNOW, not WotC. WotC probably isn't changing anything about your contract because they can't alter a contract to which they're not a party. Most likely, RPGNOW promised you something that, in the event of a cancelation of their separate contract with WotC, they cannot honor. They probably shouldn't have done that.

Check your contract with RPGNOW.

jdrakeh · Apr 6, 2009

Lizard said:
Uhm... I just checked out Drivethru and RPGNow, and I can buy WOTC products, still.

When does this go into effect?

(I got as far as checkout, I didn't actually try to buy anything, but if you can add them to your cart, I don't see why you can't buy...)

Yeah, I tried that too. . . I didn't want to go any further, for fear that I'd be billed for stuff I couldn't actually download. I suspect that turning off the shopping cart for 900+ items may take a little time if the webmaster is out of the office. If this is related to the press release I cited above, they (OBS) may have just received the notice this afternoon.

dmccoy1693 · Apr 6, 2009

tmatk said:
I bet you're right, but this move will have no effect. In fact, I bet it increases the amount of books that are pirated; harder to feel bad about downloading a book via bittorrent if their is no way to buy it.

Exactly. Those that download pirated stuff on the internet are not "customers" anyways. Even if they have to buy the book from Borders, take it to work, Xerox the entire thing 5 times (once for themselves and once for every player) and then return the book, they're not going ot pay a red cent for it. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought a scanner from Best Buy, scanned the damn thing in, and then returned the scanner and book.

But either way, those are not "lost sales" since they never had any intention to buy them in the first place. Lost sales include pissing off your customers by invalidating their previously bought legal downloads. Lost customers have no other outlit but pirated copies. If someone is pirating, shut down an account, not the entire legal avenue system.

*shakes head, rolls eyes*

Intrope · Apr 6, 2009

BTW, in the last ten minutes they've removed all Wizards products for all editions from the store.

Daniel D. Fox · Apr 6, 2009

Uniquely watermarked PDFs is the way WotC really, really needs to go with this. That way, if they wanted to identify a leaked PDF they'd know who it is.

There are a lot of watermarks out there that bury themselves within artwork and borders that are entirely undiscernable to the naked eye.

jdrakeh · Apr 6, 2009

Cadfan said:
Most likely, RPGNOW promised you something that, in the event of a cancelation of their separate contract with WotC, they cannot honor. They probably shouldn't have done that.

I'm aware of this and agree with you to some extent but the fact that

rolls downhill doesn't make WotC's decision to cancel their contract and stipulate to RPGNow that a few thousand customers be left out in the cold any easier to swallow. . .

. . . provided, of course, that the above is what actually happened. As I mention previously, it's possible that the agreement was terminated due to RPGNow refusing to sign a new distribution agreement (or some other situation thus far obscured).

All I know for certain is that RPGNow got out in front of this by providing at least some information, while WotC has been very quiet. That doesn't build any confidence.

tmatk · Apr 6, 2009

Moniker said:
Uniquely watermarked PDFs is the way WotC really, really needs to go with this. That way, if they wanted to identify a leaked PDF they'd know who it is.

There are a lot of watermarks out there that bury themselves within artwork and borders that are entirely undiscernable to the naked eye.

Sounds good in theory, but I don't think it will work in practice.

1. If it's an obnoxious watermark, like a across a whole page, people won't like it and it will sell less.

2. If it's a little thing in the corner, pirates will just cover it up in acrobat, and reexport it.

3. If it's some kind of secret, hidden mark (if thats even possible) privacy advocates will throw a hissy. This would probably happen in any event, if the watermark somehow identified you personally.

Scribble · Apr 6, 2009

jdrakeh said:
Yeah, I tried that too. . . I didn't want to go any further, for fear that I'd be billed for stuff I couldn't actually download. I suspect that turning off the shopping cart for 900+ items may take a little time if the webmaster is out of the office. If this is related to the press release I cited above, they (OBS) may have just received the notice this afternoon.

Does OBS have a brick and morter shop? Seems like you need this in order to sign their internet policy.

Seems like if they don't WoTC is either planning to:

1. Sell the pdfs themself. They have the tech to do this, doesn't seem too hard to implement. (Although more work on their end.)

Based on the internet sales policy and retailer rewards stuff this now seem unlikely.

2. Offer the B&M shops that have websites the ability to sell the PDFs.

Perhaps they saw that the pdf sales going exclusively through OBS were working in opposiion to their desire to help the brick and morter stores, and want to do soemthing to help them, rather then making Drivethru a monopoly?

If they let the brick and morter stores sell the pdfs, they help foster the ability of the B&M stores to stay relevent and continue to offer what they offer to the comunity.

DaveMage · Apr 6, 2009

Did they post the new T&C for internet sales or did they just say in the press release that internet vendors had to use them?

Edit - nevermind, I found it.