WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs

Nymrohd · Apr 8, 2009

Someone suggested DI having something like Scribd (only with no editing options) that has new books. And maybe they can sell them in pdf format a few months after a book has been released.

Klaus · Apr 8, 2009

Yeah, yeah, yeah, IANAL etc. My point is: it may have something to do with the legal case. We don't know the whole story here. It is certainly possible.

Shadowsong666 · Apr 8, 2009

MerricB said:
That's not the only alternative.

Print books.
DDi.

A potential customer of Player's Handbook II might rank his options as follows:

1) Wizards quality PDF copy of PHB2
2) Print copy of PHB2
3) Pirate PDF copy of PHB2
4) DDi access to PHB2 rules.

Now, if the pirates provide #1 for no cost, that customer goes with that. But with that option gone, it's on to actually buying the PHB2 (as the customer doesn't like the quality of the pirated PDF as opposed to the professionally created one).

Obviously, this is one of many permutations - there are plenty of people who would reverse 2 & 3, and only stopping piracy altogether will get rid of that option!

I don't know how big the pdf market is - I would guess an order of magnitude smaller than the print market at the very least - but when access to better-quality PDFs also eats into the print share of the market, it gets a lot more serious for Wizards.

Cheers!

Ok, so lets see:

I want Monster Manual 2.
It must be a digital version, as i only use digital stuff (may it be of a disability, interest in technology, geekness... whatever. wotc has not to decide which reasons i have).
I need to access it offline and still get a book-like feeling (mobility, lack of internet etc.).

How is (how legally so ever) removing pdf support going to help me as a customer?

I don't want a printed example of the book.
DDI has no service which would help me in any way. Character builder doesn't cover the MM and the compendium is simply not good enough here (lacking pictures, history etc.).

So whats next for me? Going back in time, starting to buy physical books again and spending 6hours scanning a book or should i turn to piracy, downloading a scanned version in a minute at no cost?
Feeling robbed myself (of the ability to satisfy my desires with wotc pdfs) i'm asking myself why shouldn't i do the same the same too. There is only one group who provides my needs now - pirates. Time to let wotc walk the plank? i damn feel so...

MerricB · Apr 8, 2009

Fenes said:
That's 4E. For 3E material there is:

Buy second-hand print copy.
Download pirated pdf.

Neither alternative makes WotC any money. Stopping the sale of 3E material was not done to battle piracy.

Well, not as directly, no, given it's mostly already been copied!

Which is why I suspect that Wizards are in the middle of something bigger. I think they're reorganising how they sell old material pdfs, but we're in the middle of "internet rage" which rises and consumes everything...

...and the news isn't even 48 hours old.

Urgh. The employees of big corporations can't just say what occurs to them. There are laws about that. However, as we need to know now, Now, NOW!, we happily ignore than and assume that despite it being 3am, they'll be online and answering every question we ask.

Do I think they could have given out more information by this point? Absolutely!

They've given us a moderate amount of information: they've identified a problem (pirate pdfs) and the solution to the problem (no pdfs!). Unfortunately, as the solution is a bigger problem for us (no pdfs! Argh!), we need another solution. Well, we've been told that there might be a solution, but - alas - that's all. And we need more.

I'm willing to be somewhat patient, but if we haven't heard more in the next few days, there are a few people at Wizards who will need to be reeducated in the realities of the modern era.

Fenes · Apr 8, 2009

Klaus said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, IANAL etc. My point is: it may have something to do with the legal case. We don't know the whole story here. It is certainly possible.

Again I doubt that. They pulled all pdfs, even from editions that haven't been sold as print books since decades.

Umbran · Apr 8, 2009

Xyxox said:
2) Promises will be made that older material will appear in DDI at some unspecified future date. This alleviates the nerd rage and is the "I'll never beat you again" phase of the spousal abuse syndrome.

Someone seems to have missed the message about hyperbole. This someone will no longer be participating in this discussion.

To be clear - inability to get the gaming content you want in the form you want is in no way, shape, or form analogous to spouse-beating, or any other form of physical or psychological abuse.

Such comparison shows a lack of a sense of proportion and reason, and you were all told earlier that such would be required if you wanted to participate. We hope we don't have to speak on this again.

Caliber · Apr 8, 2009

Further hypothesizing from Charles's speculation, do we have any idea who the people being sued are? The pirate copies of the 4E core books were print proofs, suggesting a leak in the production line somewhere. Perhaps they're going after people who are involved in situations analogous to that (or even that situation itself)?

webrunner · Apr 8, 2009

Bagpuss said:
No, I'm suggesting they might be ~~idiots~~ not up to speed on the issues surrounding piracy, and still be living in the 1990's.

I wish there was a way to get information directly to the shareholders of Hasbro that these acts are not in their best interests.

xechnao · Apr 8, 2009

MerricB said:
That's not the only alternative.

Print books.
DDi.

A potential customer of Player's Handbook II might rank his options as follows:

1) Wizards quality PDF copy of PHB2
2) Print copy of PHB2
3) Pirate PDF copy of PHB2
4) DDi access to PHB2 rules.

Now, if the pirates provide #1 for no cost, that customer goes with that. But with that option gone, it's on to actually buying the PHB2 (as the customer doesn't like the quality of the pirated PDF as opposed to the professionally created one).

Obviously, this is one of many permutations - there are plenty of people who would reverse 2 & 3, and only stopping piracy altogether will get rid of that option!

I don't know how big the pdf market is - I would guess an order of magnitude smaller than the print market at the very least - but when access to better-quality PDFs also eats into the print share of the market, it gets a lot more serious for Wizards.

Cheers!

But why other big companies offer pdfs then (Paizo, White Wolf, Mongoose, Green Ronin, SJG, Catalyst etch)? Then again FFG that has products whose selling points is already highly popular IP (warhammer) does not.

Also didn't Wotc offer quality pdfs with 3.xe?

So could we aggree that the piracy effect to your business depends on some factors that have to do with your marketing and commercial model? As it also happens with the competition effects.

The problem though is that if you want to associate to your customer base the value of your name -which only you possess- you have to remain consistent too.

Wotc has not paid attention to this in the last move and this perhaps is going to cost it. We will see.

Gorrstagg · Apr 8, 2009

To CleverNickName, the silence has been just surreal.

cross-posted at WotC

One thing that has me thinking a little is. Imagine the stock holder, who just heard that a subsidiary of the company he owns stock in (Hasbro), in a completely unexplained move, just cut off a revenue stream that brought in steady money, daily. And did it before the release of a major enhancement product for their product line?

I would be angry because that means someone decided to essentially take money out of my pocket, and the pockets of every single other share holder. Directly.

Not to mention the actual PR reaction this has engendered, and that it's starting to get picked up in many places. I would be very, very concerned about who authorized the choice to stop a fully functional revenue stream.

This whole process has just been incredibly mind boggling. And to the folks who say that WotC has to keep on protecting their copyrights, by specifically asking and threatening those who host said pirated goods, to take it down, they are protecting it. And they also have protected it by going to court against the pirates listed. And none of it should of affected the current PDF sales.

You do NOT pull everything out, in order to find an alternative approach. You spend the entire year working on the methods in question, and search for alternative digital distribution methods. You put that into place before you do this move. And you most assuredly communicate with people to let them know you've been exploring this technology.

This action just seems, so erratic, and inspires extreme concern about this incredible mistake. Especially in light of the economic downturn. You don't stop taking in money for a virtual product, you keep bringing in the money, because ... that's your JOB.

And seriously, there needs to be an immediate response from a PR perspective on this subject. Look in MMO circles, when a company makes an incredibly bad choice, the president/ceo comes out and admits that they made an error, and are working to rectify that issue. And be responsible. And get the problem fixed. And I reference the MMO field because Wizards has been building itself into the digital medium, and have been trying to lure MMO players either back into the D&D fold, or at least add them into it.

I'm still blown away by this decision to take down all PDF's.