Retailer's Stance on PDF Deals

Glyfair · Apr 10, 2009

Mark said:
It's a matter of functionality and people who view them as the same are missing out on the key aspect.

I agree somewhat. However, those saying they are completely different are missing the point just as well.

Some PDF customers buy PDFs because they want that format. However, some PDF customers buy them because they are cheaper.

I am an example of this, at times. I purchased Blackdirge's Dungeon Denizens as a PDF because it was about what I was willing to spend. I would slightly prefer a print copy (much more useful to me). However, the difference in price was significant enough, and a monster book is one of the few books I can tolerate in a PDF (because I don't need to print out the whole book to make use of it).

To ignore that a retailer is going to lose sales because the price of a PDF is much cheaper than a print copy (especially because of an additional special discount) is a mistake. It happens, and probably often enough to be a concern of retailers.

Erik Mona · Apr 10, 2009

Beginning of the End said:
If you're truly unaware of the history of giving away free digital copies of core rulebooks in this industry, then you haven't been paying attention. (If you had been paying attention, you might have learned that many such efforts resulted in an uptick in sales of the printed books and supplements for that game.)

I should think the instant sellout of the Pathfinder Beta Playtest print edition (which we didn't even think there would be much of a market for and thought we would literally still have copies left today) was enough evidence to prove that PDFs can be used to PROMOTE sales at retail stores.

I am hoping the release of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook in August takes things even a step further, because more than 50,000 individual gamers have downloaded the Beta, and a LOT of them are going to be buying the game in brick and mortar stores.

(If the brick and mortar stores order it, that is. Some of them still proudly post on retailer forums that they thought Paizo went out of business when the magazines were canceled.)

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

jdrakeh · Apr 10, 2009

Hussar said:
Let's not lose sight of the message here though.

Agreed.

He's not complaining that pdf's are cheaper, he's complaining that his suppliers are using the current events to offer deep discounts to consumers without giving him any chance of competing.

Right. He's saying that publishers shouldn't offer products similar to those that he stocks direct to consumers at a discounted rate. This is even more absurd, since the practice in question has been going on for nearly a decade (as opposed to a mere three years).

Direct to consumer marketing on the behalf of publishers is a long standing practice, as are deep publisher discounts of physical product. And what about online vendors (e.g., Amazon) offering deep discounts on books? They've been around for almost a decade, too.

If direct to consumer sales and publisher or online vendor discounts were seriously cutting into the profit margins of local game stores, we would have heard a lot more about it before now (rather than a few infrequent ramblings from one or two notoriously disgruntled shopkeeps).

While it is almost certain that brick and mortar stores are struggling to compete as the market changes, trying to point to one-time PDF discounts (or any other largely isolated occurance) as the cause of all retail ills is just an excuse to shift blame, rather than an attempt to find a solution.

If retailers want to talk about solutions, they need to talk about solutions (instead of just pointing fingers). I expect that some e-vendors would be pretty excited to work with retail stores to distribute content via game store websites (like the various RPGNow storefronts).

Wulf Ratbane · Apr 10, 2009

How's business at Games Plus Mt. Prospect?

I never had a problem spending a little more there, even when I could get it cheaper online, and even when PDFs were available.

They must have a mind control ray.

Mark · Apr 10, 2009

Glyfair said:
I agree somewhat. However, those saying they are completely different are missing the point just as well.

Some PDF customers buy PDFs because they want that format. However, some PDF customers buy them because they are cheaper.

I am an example of this, at times. I purchased Blackdirge's Dungeon Denizens as a PDF because it was about what I was willing to spend. I would slightly prefer a print copy (much more useful to me). However, the difference in price was significant enough, and a monster book is one of the few books I can tolerate in a PDF (because I don't need to print out the whole book to make use of it).

To ignore that a retailer is going to lose sales because the price of a PDF is much cheaper than a print copy (especially because of an additional special discount) is a mistake. It happens, and probably often enough to be a concern of retailers.

I hear you but if you are picking up a $10.00 PDF because you do not want to pay $29.95 for the print product then the retailer never had a chance at the sale anyway.

Mark · Apr 10, 2009

Wulf Ratbane said:
How's business at Games Plus Mt. Prospect?

I never had a problem spending a little more there, even when I could get it cheaper online, and even when PDFs were available.

They must have a mind control ray.

I was there last night playing Feng Shui and this afternoon playing Battlelore. They seem to be doing just fine.

Glyfair · Apr 10, 2009

Mark said:
I hear you but if you are picking up a $10.00 PDF because you do not want to pay $29.95 for the print product then the retailer never had a chance at the sale anyway.

Actually, it was a $15 PDF vs. a $25 print product. It was a very close decision, as I vastly prefer supporting my local retailer (for lots of reasons) and prefer a print copy. The fact that the print version wasn't available was the tipping point.

At that close a decision, a sale on just the PDF version would certainly make it a decision for me. In fact, if the discount doesn't encourage someone to pick up the PDF, then why are they even offering it?

Mark · Apr 10, 2009

Glyfair said:
In fact, if the discount doesn't encourage someone to pick up the PDF, then why are they even offering it?

A 25% discount on a PDF is an appeal to someone who wouldn't pick up a PDF at 100%, not to someone who wants the print version.

ProfessorCirno said:
The F on the FLGS is what sells things.

I am editing my post to preemptively agree with your next post.

ProfessorCirno · Apr 10, 2009

The F on the FLGS is what sells things. For example, were All-Star Games still open, and I still lived in the area, I don't think I'd buy any D&D products from anywhere else, cheaper online or not.

As others have said, coming out to complain about pdfs now seems kinda...odd, at best. This isn't exactly new technology, people.

Aus_Snow · Apr 10, 2009

freyar said:
It's probably also fair to point out that at least some of these publishers (GR, I remember in particular) have had print-only sales for extended periods the last couple of years. Presumably the retailers could have taken advantage of those.

Not just 'could have'. *DID*. Even here, over the other side of the world.*

Just another reason to call shenanigans on this MK fellow's. . . words.

* Oh noes, didn't anyone think of the PDF stores!1!! :rant:

Retailer's Stance on PDF Deals

Glyfair

Explorer

Erik Mona

Adventurer

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

Glyfair

Explorer

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

ProfessorCirno

Banned

Aus_Snow

First Post

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