Party optimization

OrcCourtesy · Jul 4, 2009

I often hear that 4E places more emphasis on building parties that work well together than on building individual characters.

Can anyone point me to examples of well-optimized parties, and/or advice for how to approach party optimization?

Nifft · Jul 4, 2009

Party Optimization requires a degree of system mastery that isn't yet evident even on the Char-Op forum (!!!), so it's going to be a while before we get hard-and-fast rules about it.

Some specific examples I've seen provide exceptional synergy:
- Fighter + Rogue who flanks & provokes OAs from the Fighter's mark
- Cunning Bard + everyone takes the Agile Opportunist paragon feat

Cheers, -- N

OrcCourtesy · Jul 4, 2009

The Complete Collection of Character Build Links at the Character Optimization board has some pointers, but I'll need to develop some system mastery (or at least jargon mastery) to understand what they're talking about.

Google helped me find a RPG.net forum challenge for optimization at 1st level that has some sample parties.

Flipguarder · Jul 4, 2009

Another good synergy is between high hp/ high healing surge defenders and artificers. Combine in the armor that gives you temp hp based on others acquisition of them and it gets fairly ridiculous.

Party optimization is essentially cramming as many of these hard to find class synergies into a party as possible.

OrcCourtesy · Jul 4, 2009

What is it that the artificer does that works well with the high-HP defender? I have an artificer in the party I usually play with, but it's played by an inexperienced player & we're at low level so I don't have a good feel for the class.

Flipguarder · Jul 4, 2009

The synergy works like this:

The more surges the defender has, the more surges anyone in the party can have, due to their recharge ability for their healing option.

Also there is an armor that gives you half the temp hp that someone else gets. I can't remember its name but with the temp hp healing power artificers have the artificer in our party can give me 50 temp hp and a party member 25 temp hp for each of the 17 healing surges I have (we are level 18). Its essentially a VERY good mitigation synergy.

I really wish I could remember the name of the armor, but I got nothing (we all found it up thursday)

FrozenChrono · Jul 4, 2009

Actually with the armor your talking about I think the caster gets the bonus temp hp. But there's also a feat that grants bonus temp hp to one other party member = to the temp hp granted to the first.

As a side note the more at will and encounter temp hp production there is in a party the more effective an assault swordmage becomes.

babinro · Jul 4, 2009

At least from my history, the only party I've seen experience a TPK was the one that entirely focused on dealing damage as opposed to having powers with buffs of conditions. 4E has tons of synergy potential if people choose to explore it.

IE) If your controller focuses on conditions like slow/immobile, your party can put a decent focus on ranged attacks to spike enemies in those encounters. This was extremely effective to a degree where it got silly in my campaign. Mainly because too many creatures in heroic tier MM1 do NOT have a ranged attack option. I found myself having to give them slings/crossbows on the fly in order to put some fear in the battle.

Or...combine nasty zone effects/sustained AOE with melee characters who can push/slide in order to maximize the effects.

Moonsword · Jul 4, 2009

It certainly encourages synergy, but optimizing a party isn't that hard if the players are canny and talk to each other in my experience.

Iron Sky · Jul 4, 2009

I think the character optimization boards don't talk about party optimization much since most of the characters they build are designed not to need a party (or if they do, they just need an abstract Tactical Warlord giving them a buff for their uber combo).

As far as actual party synergies go, another is sustainable/persistent harmful zones and push/slide powers. At level 1 you can have Flaming Sphere + Tide of Iron off the top of my head. A Warlock + a Wizard focusing on zones (so they have enough of them to drop one or more most fights during the day) and push powers alone would be pretty powerful and if everyone else picked up an encounter and/or at-will that pushed or slid...

There's a million little synergies that can work too, like a melee cleric with Righteous Brand + any other melee character readying their action for when the cleric attacks so they can get two rounds-worth of attacks with the cleric's bonus. Or (assuming your DM interprets it favorably) having a bard with misdirecting mark + an assault Swordmage, so they have to Aegis targets each round.