Infiniti2000
First Post
Well, now fortunately this won't happen again. One action, not multiple actions.
Dominate: Can you compel free actions?
- Thread starter Lizard
- Start date
Zinovia
Explorer
I'd agree with the "one action" interpretation. One action period - ignore the fact that dazed creatures can use a free action as well. In this case your character is dominated, and so the dominating creature dictates your single action.
Powers used can only be at-wills, and under no circumstances would I let a dominating bad guy spend an action point for the character, nor would I allow the expenditure of an item power that is triggered as a free action. Spending an action point or using a daily free-action item power defeats the point of limiting the dominated action to at-wills, that being to avoid having any character resources diminished while they are dominated.
It sucks enough to be dominated and forced to attack your friends or move to a spot you didn't choose. It is far worse to have your precious limited daily or encounter powers (or action points!) be used against your allies, which is why the rules don't allow it. I know that action points and many item powers are a free action, but it's against the spirit of the rules to allow a dominating creature to use them up. Also, it's no fun! Dominated = 1 action that cannot be an encounter or daily or their equivalents (AP=encounter, items = daily or encounter).
Powers used can only be at-wills, and under no circumstances would I let a dominating bad guy spend an action point for the character, nor would I allow the expenditure of an item power that is triggered as a free action. Spending an action point or using a daily free-action item power defeats the point of limiting the dominated action to at-wills, that being to avoid having any character resources diminished while they are dominated.
It sucks enough to be dominated and forced to attack your friends or move to a spot you didn't choose. It is far worse to have your precious limited daily or encounter powers (or action points!) be used against your allies, which is why the rules don't allow it. I know that action points and many item powers are a free action, but it's against the spirit of the rules to allow a dominating creature to use them up. Also, it's no fun! Dominated = 1 action that cannot be an encounter or daily or their equivalents (AP=encounter, items = daily or encounter).
I lean toward the one action. I don't think making character's use action points, item dailes, powerful free action class encounters, ect is in the spirit of the rules - though it very well may be within the letter of the rules.
In the games I have run where charaters were dominated, I didn't feel a need to do anything more than one action. The one action is bad enough - the player misses a turn *and* helps the enemy - is more than enough penalty.
On the question of allies and enemies. For a dominated character I let the character continued to determine who are friends and foes, except for the creature that dominated the charcter - who is now the character's "very special friend."
In the games I have run where charaters were dominated, I didn't feel a need to do anything more than one action. The one action is bad enough - the player misses a turn *and* helps the enemy - is more than enough penalty.
On the question of allies and enemies. For a dominated character I let the character continued to determine who are friends and foes, except for the creature that dominated the charcter - who is now the character's "very special friend."
keterys
First Post
So, can dominated characters not spend free actions at all, in any way? Like, they can't talk, they can't quickdraw a weapon, etc?
If the dominater can't choose the action, can the player? Can the player choose to AP and take a real action?
The at-will restriction seems to take care of any AP, item, whatever type abuse that might occur. I've never tried to use a free action as a DM, but I've also never stopped a player who I've told I'd dominated from using them. Stopping them from RPing being dominated (ie, talking, as a free action) sounds really poor.
Dominating someone into dropping their weapon and surrendering (going prone) sounds pretty appropriate.
It's an interesting topic.
If the dominater can't choose the action, can the player? Can the player choose to AP and take a real action?
The at-will restriction seems to take care of any AP, item, whatever type abuse that might occur. I've never tried to use a free action as a DM, but I've also never stopped a player who I've told I'd dominated from using them. Stopping them from RPing being dominated (ie, talking, as a free action) sounds really poor.
Dominating someone into dropping their weapon and surrendering (going prone) sounds pretty appropriate.
It's an interesting topic.
Infiniti2000
First Post
The dominater chooses the action, that much is clear, isn't it? Now, can the player use free actions in addition to whatever he's made to do? I still don't think so. He "chooses your action." It's not, "He chooses your main action, but you may choose additional free actions."
keterys
First Post
Right, exactly. But implicit in the concept above of you not getting free actions is that it says it chooses 'your action' (singular). It would be ludicrous for you to be able to take extra actions outside of the dominate control... so... what rule prevents the PC from taking free actions (like talking)?
Cause if the PC can take free actions, they'd certainly be under the control of the dominate. Which brings back the 'Okay, it drops your weapon then jumps you into the pit with the Otyugh' theory of dominate.
I suspect this is just a case of the rule being improperly defined, but I'm also curious what way would work better for the game.
Cause if the PC can take free actions, they'd certainly be under the control of the dominate. Which brings back the 'Okay, it drops your weapon then jumps you into the pit with the Otyugh' theory of dominate.
I suspect this is just a case of the rule being improperly defined, but I'm also curious what way would work better for the game.
ChristopherA
First Post
Quick Draw is not a free action, it is "part of" your attack action, so this would be allowed until either interpretation.
As far as the main discussion goes, as GM I would play that the dominated character cannot be forced to spend action points or valuable resources, and may only be ordered to perform one action.
__________________
Come read my game design/analysis blog at: http://gamedesignfanatic.blogspot.com
Infiniti2000
First Post
Actually, how would the creature even know to use Quick Draw? Does it get an inventory of your abilities? Or, can the creature use its own Quick Draw (assuming it has it)?
keterys
First Post
It knows how to use your at-will abilities, somehow... it seems likely that it gives an order and you effectively go about it to the best of your abilities.
And yeah, my bad on Quickdraw. Something like battle harness armor would have been better.
At any rate, the 'only one action' camp is still saying that you'd deny the ability to talk while dominated, correct?
What about if the vampire, say, who was dominating used an ability that gave the dominated target a free action attack? Vampires often have classes, this is not so far-fetched actually.
When you usually get only one action (dazed) 'choose your action' is correct, but it's not binding to 'can only take one action', but dazed does not in fact limit you to only one action, so it seems unlikely the intent is that you can't take any other actions whatsoever. For example, a dominated character who moves through a zone of tar that has a rule 'As a free action at the start of your turn, make an Athletics or Acrobatics check to avoid being immobilized until the end of your turn' could presumably do so.
And yeah, my bad on Quickdraw. Something like battle harness armor would have been better.
At any rate, the 'only one action' camp is still saying that you'd deny the ability to talk while dominated, correct?
What about if the vampire, say, who was dominating used an ability that gave the dominated target a free action attack? Vampires often have classes, this is not so far-fetched actually.
When you usually get only one action (dazed) 'choose your action' is correct, but it's not binding to 'can only take one action', but dazed does not in fact limit you to only one action, so it seems unlikely the intent is that you can't take any other actions whatsoever. For example, a dominated character who moves through a zone of tar that has a rule 'As a free action at the start of your turn, make an Athletics or Acrobatics check to avoid being immobilized until the end of your turn' could presumably do so.
Similar Threads
AD6_gamerati_skyscraper
Upcoming Releases
-
April 16 2024 -
May 31 2024 -
June 3 2024 -
June 4 2024 -
June 18 2024 -
July 16 2024 -
September 17 2024 -
October 1 2024 -
November 12 2024 -
February 18 2025
