Proposal: Let Players Sell Stuff to Other Players

renau1g · Mar 5, 2010

elecgraystone said:
The game is balanced so that a character has items level -1, level and level +1 and money = level-1. So you're telling me that if I sell one of my items that's not off?

5th level character expected to have 4480gp wealth
I sell off my level +1 item, I now have 3040 wealth, 1440 gp behind. How DOESN'T the GM have to fix that.

You could sell all your items then its really off, but that was your choice to sell your items. If you decide you don't like your +2 widget and sell it you don't have the +2 to hit/damage. Oh well. Your choice. Wish Lists are used to mitigate the risk that you're given loot you don't want and be behind the wealth curve.

So say your 5th level PC sells all his gear and buys a level-1 item with the starting gold then sells it again. He's left with 816 gold. So what you were dumb and sold everything, it's not the DM's responsibility to hold your hand and make sure you are ok. When I DM I look at the players reward sheet to give them approx. 1 item/level. If they received one already and sold it, guess what you got your rewards for that level.

elecgraystone · Mar 6, 2010

renau1g said:
You could sell all your items then its really off, but that was your choice to sell your items. If you decide you don't like your +2 widget and sell it you don't have the +2 to hit/damage. Oh well. Your choice. Wish Lists are used to mitigate the risk that you're given loot you don't want and be behind the wealth curve.

However we've had Dm's say that wishlist are only a suggestion. It's not really my choice if my options are having a second sword (and I use a shield) or sell it. Either way I have an parcel I'm not using. If you can say that players ALWAYS get what's on their wishlist, then I'll agree it's the players choice that they changes their mind. Now if the GM made a choice for the player than that isn't a fair statement.

renau1g said:
He's left with 816 gold. So what you were dumb and sold everything, it's not the DM's responsibility to hold your hand and make sure you are ok.

So if I get the +1 club talked about earlier and I didn't ask for it, I'm dumb for not wanting it even though I didn't have it on my wishlist? I'm dumb for getting rid of an item I didn't want to try to midigate things? Sorry, I don't argee. A 2nd level item I'll use all the time is worth more than a level 10 item that diplicates an item I already have (like a backup weapon) or doesn't fit the way my character plays..

evilbob said:
It's worth pointing out again that at every 5 levels, this issue basically takes care of itself. Item price levels jump tremendously, so that a level 11 character getting an extra level 4 or even 7 item doesn't really change anything.

However if that 11th level character got a 15th level item they don't want, didn't ask for and aren't going to use they are behind for 5 levels and they didn't do anything wrong. their only option is to trade it in for a much lower level item and that doesn't seem fair.

evilbob · Mar 6, 2010

elecgraystone said:
However if that 11th level character got a 15th level item they don't want, didn't ask for and aren't going to use they are behind for 5 levels and they didn't do anything wrong. their only option is to trade it in for a much lower level item and that doesn't seem fair.

I think you're mixing two arguments here.

renau1g · Mar 6, 2010

Then don't take the parcel and throw it in the garbage. Taking a parcel and selling it means you've accepted that parcel. If you DM give a +4 club of crappiness and says Elec you must take this, then speak to the judge or me, I'll step in. OTOH if the DM gives you a +4 rod of blasterfying but you wanted a +4 rod of explosions, well I have less sympathy for that. Just because some DM's don't give you exactly what you want on your wish lists automatically means they'll give you absolutely crappy useless items.

I really, really think everyone's making a big effing deal about the comment that Mal made earlier about giving random treasure out in his home game and his preference for a portion of items being rewarded be random and his games here. I've seen the rewards he's given out, guess what, Callen didn't get a +1 blowgun.

Dekana · Mar 6, 2010

I thought I'd note that this proposal has been defeated. The final vote is 1 for (Ozymandius79), 3 against (Renau1g, TwoHeadsBarking, Kalidrev).

elecgraystone · Mar 6, 2010

Let me give you an example renau1g. In a game not too long ago the GM HERE asked what kind of implement I wanted for my warlock, I said a pactblade. They then asked if I want a wand since I had wizard spell from the multiclass feat. I said no, I wanted a pact blade. Then I was asked if I wanted a wand and a pactblade. I said no again. My wizard spell had an effect that happened even when I missed so I did need two implements.

Well, adventure done and I have two implements. Not being able to take the dual implement feat I didn't need two so i'm going to end up selling the wand. Honestly the wand is 'ok' but I don't need a backup weapon and I wouldn't want it counted against my parcel for the level. Good thing we don't have parcels here.

I didn't think anything about it because I figured I could just sell it and I could make up the difference in my wealth in a later adventure. I had no idea that the parcels are forever like that. I must say that makes me not a fan of that system. It's good to know that I can ask for a review and not take the item. I'll remember that for the game I'm in that uses parcels...

renau1g · Mar 6, 2010

Dekana said:
I thought I'd note that this proposal has been defeated. The final vote is 1 for (Ozymandius79), 3 against (Renau1g, TwoHeadsBarking, Kalidrev).

Very well. The proposal is closed for for at least one month.

When I say about the review, I mean if you're awarded something that absolutely can't be used by you (i.e. a +3 greatsword for a mage) not just something you don't want. Only then would I consider discussing it with the DM.

elecgraystone · Mar 6, 2010

renau1g said:
When I say about the review, I mean if you're awarded something that absolutely can't be used by you (i.e. a +3 greatsword for a mage) not just something you don't want. Only then would I consider discussing it with the DM.

Then you and I have different ideas of usefulness then. A 'backup' weapon in 4E ranks up there on the useless chart for me. Is a second +3 2 handed weapon worth a full parcel to a fighter? Not IMO.

Regardless, I have the option to not take the parcel and that good enough for me. I assume that if that was the case I could be awarded that parcel again at a later date. If so I don't mind waiting.

Tenchuu · Nov 14, 2010

I was reading through the old proposals and saw this one.

On a related note, why is the game setup so that any item the player sells is at 20%? Is there a good reason for this? Or is this just the way wizards made it work?

I don't see any issue with allowing a player to sell any item at 100% value (be it to another player or to "the bank"). What am I missing, here? Why would it be a bad thing?

renau1g · Nov 14, 2010

Well, we could get into a large discussions on the economics of D&D but I guess in summation, because the math works that way. My biggest issue with selling to other players in a PbP is that it really screws with the expected wealth and gives some lucky players a huge advantage over another. Buying @100% makes no sense from the buyers perspective because otherwise they should just buy it from the "generic merchant". Selling @ 100% puts you well above the wealth curve and it takes a long while for things to rebalance in PbP as rewards can be 6 months between them.