Darkness aura vs light aura: what wins?

DevP · Mar 1, 2010

I'm building an encounter where being in dim light or darkness makes you vulnerable to certain attacks. I have:

Shroud of Night aura 10; bright light in the aura is reduced to dim light, and dim light becomes darkness.

But I'm offering them access to:

Shield of Silver Light Power (At-Will): Minor. The shield sheds bright light 5 squares in all directions.

I'm pretty sure ruleswise that this means the bright-light is reduced to dim light. But, for this encounter I may allow that 1 square around the shield can still be bright light; this may make things interesting.

(Has anyone every played Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles? Remember the bucket mechanic? I'm thinking of that.)

Flipguarder · Mar 1, 2010

I can't remember where it is, but I'm 75% sure there's a rule that states the power that "wins" is the higher level one.

mneme · Mar 2, 2010

Flip: that's a 3.5 rule, far as I know.

Most 4e darkness powers don't just "create darkness" -- they block line of sight for all creatures (usually except the caster) and blind those within the area of effect.

Something like a coat of eyes will get around the blinded condition, but not the "blocks line of sight" bit.

A dreamstone amulet will counteract magical darkness, as you gain blindsight. (though it doesn't specify a range -- LOE, presumably).

A grimlock amulet or ungent of blindsight will also let you see into clouds of darkness -- at paragon or epic levels, respectively.

xXElaDriNDrizZztXx · Mar 2, 2010

The fans!

Or the higher level one... Or the one casted second... Or the fans... I go with the fans...

I'm being serious though.. It depends on the setting and caster levels.

mneme · Mar 2, 2010

Oh, on topic, the above mechanics seem cool as encounter-granted powers that are expressly written to counteract themselves. That in-game darkness powers aren't that easy to get rid of short of zone destruction or blindsight doesn't mean you can't make your own cycle of powers (particularly in a limited engagement like powers tied to a specific encounter) that are meant to act this way.

Amaroq · Mar 2, 2010

Yeah, absolutely agree with mneme - this feels like one which you'll want to toss the official rules out the window, and write your own "house rule" for.

I'd suggest you give it a bit more flexibility than "highest level", or "one square of bright" .. you might get a lot of mileage out of "2 squares of bright" or even doing up some kind of weird "cover" rule, maybe:

- When the two powers overlap, all squares adjacent to the shield remain bright light.

- Any squares within 5 of the shield, but closer to the source of the darkness than the shield is, are dim light. Any squares within 5 of the shield but further from the source of the darkness than the shield is, are bright light.

- For all other squares within the darkness aura subject to natural light, torchlight, etc, trace a line from the center of the square to the center of the darkness.
: If the line passes through a square of bright light from the shield's aura, the square is as bright as its light source would make it (minimum: dim light thanks to the shield's brilliance).
: If the line passes through a square of dim light, the square is as bright as its light source would make it. (maximum: dim light).
: If the line does not pass through a square lit by the shield, the square is considered dark.

Those rules put a massive premium on the shield, as other light sources become useless without the shield.

Whoever is carrying the shield will literally cut a swath of visibility through the darkness .. while tossing other potential sources of bright light into the darkness won't help at all - at least, not until you get the shield far enough into the darkness to start cutting off the darkness's "line of effect".

If the darkness effect comes from a creature, s/he may be able to dance around the shield, putting those who through they were safe in the bright light back into the dim light or darkness.

The effect should really create an epic "darkness versus light" battle effect .. in fact, I'm going to face a similar situation soon, so I may just yoink those rules as my starting point and massage them some more until they're polished.

Starfox · Mar 2, 2010

I donöt recall ever seeing a rule about level mattering in this case. RAW, the shield is just a light source, same as a glowrod is a light source (and with a smaller radius). The aura of darkness would trumph it.

That said, I think making a situational rule for this encounter is perfectly good encounter design. The question is what happens next time a light source encounters a darkness power.

Amaroq · Mar 2, 2010

Right - this is certainly an area that requires some thought.

Is the Shield of Silver Light an item which you want to imbue with some sort of divine power-against-darkness and a history which perhaps indicates that it is a Shield of Legend .. or is it just a cool little light-from-my-shield-so-I-don't-have-to-carry-a-torch utility item?

If the former, maybe it retains the torch-in-the-form-of-a-shield power as an At-Will .. but hints at having additional powers by granting this power during this encounter only ... or you could consider making "beats darkness auras" an explicit Daily power of your Shield of Silver Light, which is now well on its way to being a unique, non-RAW item that your players will love ...

.. in that case, you'll probably want to limit it a little bit, or you'll need to remember that Darkness powers are going to be nerfed against your group when building encounters. Of course, you'll need to build plenty of encounters with darkness so that the players get the bang for their buck.. just remember to buff the encounter with maybe one extra creature or something.

If its just a utility-item in your mind, I'd almost say don't do anything special for it, beyond maybe the "adjacent is bright" rule, and leave that an encounter rule: maybe specified in the Darkness Aura rather than in the shield?

Flipguarder · Mar 2, 2010

So a young black dragon and Pelor walk into a bar and the dragon goes "$#@$ YOU IM A DAGRON! BLACKNESS GO!" and then Pelor goes "OH NOES BLACKNESS I AM UESLESS!!!"

true story.