L4W Discussion Thread V

ScorpiusRisk · Jul 7, 2010

No. Using your AP does not count as a free action. Its a special action in combat that grants you an additional standard.

evilbob · Jul 7, 2010

They nerfed the crap out of Legion's Hold! I knew I should have played an epic wizard a while back...

These updates are still so weird to me. It's like, when the book was published, their motto was "game-breaking abilities for players at level 27 and up are pretty much par for the course". They published for about 1 1/2 years using those guidelines. Now, suddenly, they're like: "oh wait - maybe we shouldn't let people have game-breaking abilities even at level 30".

I can respect either opinion, but it just seems so weird to completely reverse philosophies after ~2 years.

stonegod · Jul 7, 2010

It's likely taken this long for a large player base to reach that level.

evilbob · Jul 7, 2010

See, and that seems like a reasonable response: but then you have to take into consideration that as a first-time reader of the PHB two years ago, even I knew that power was the end-all be-all. Why didn't they?

This is a rant I've been on for a while, frankly, but I honestly don't think they had anyone really check their publications for "balance" or "reasonableness" when they first came out. I mean, I KNOW they never copy-edited them (see page XX for more details on that), but I don't think they really ever had much of a process. Stuff that was painfully obviously over-the-top broken was left alone for years, and then later fixed through errata. My question remains: where were these quality control people two years ago, when this stuff was rushing to print? Some of these interactions are not obvious and may take a while to figure out - I grant you - but other stuff (a LOT of stuff) is definitely not.

Anyway, this is just my personal rant; I've been saying it for years; feel free to ignore.

Xeterog · Jul 7, 2010

ScorpiusRisk said:
No. Using your AP does not count as a free action. Its a special action in combat that grants you an additional standard.

Using an AP is a free action. It grants you not an attack, but a standard action. You use that standard action to attack with, not the free action, so it isn't affected by the free action change.

the update is talking about things that say something along the lines of "makes a basic attack as a free action" or "charges as a free action"..

L4W question: Does errata have the same 30-day approval delay that other published books have?

stonegod · Jul 7, 2010

It's automatic last I checked.

ryryguy · Jul 7, 2010

RedBeardJim said:
Also, the level 2 Cleric utilities "Bless" and "Shield of Faith" are now minor actions instead of standard actions (along with "Purify" but that's level 22).

But strangely, "Armor of Faith" did not get the same treatment. Is it really that much better than "Shield of Faith"? (+4 to any one defense for one target vs. +2 to AC for all allies) Ingot may retrain to "Shield".

renau1g · Jul 8, 2010

Xeterog said:
L4W question: Does errata have the same 30-day approval delay that other published books have?

No, errata takes effect right away as it's an errata to previously approved materials. That said there have been some major changes in errata's (last one the swarm druid) and the DM has the option to allow things to continue without requiring the change until the end of the adventure. Alternatively, the current battle for Fredrock should continue as pre-errata until the fight is over.

Cleverusername · Jul 8, 2010

Mal Malenkirk said:
Speaking of EN world XP; I was taking aback (and a little jealous, I admit!) when I noted that the newbie Cleverusername was level 5 with like 17 post to his name. Anyone noticed that?

Yeah... apparently they thought I was clever... even CleverNickName thought it so

Mezegis · Jul 8, 2010

So for clarification on the free action thing, Bonk the Barbarian crits and triggers Rampage and in doing so he kills his opponent on the second swing. Due to the 1 free action rule, he cannot trigger Swift Charge, even though he felled his enemy. Correct?