Proposal: Replace Expertise Related House Rule with Feat Slot

Velmont · Mar 23, 2010

If a 1 doesn't make a change, let's see my game, Merryl's Rescue.

A ghoul hit (and immobilized) Ikni just because he was within an aura that gave him +1 to hit. That allowed another ghoul to stun him after that.

Then a dreadclaw hit three players with an area attack. Two criticals and he hit the last palyer by 1... because h was within the aura.

Later a ghoul attack Martelai. He miss by 1. Why? The ghoul was in the aura, so he got his +1 but Martelai was within the 'aura' of Bell, the bard, that gave him +1 AC.

TwoHeadsBarking · Mar 23, 2010

Ikni's a girl.

Oni · Mar 23, 2010

Eh, a +1 would make a difference between a hit and a miss 5% of the time, the other 95% of the time you would have hit or missed regardless of having a +1 or not.

covaithe · Mar 24, 2010

TwoHeadsBarking said:
Ikni's a girl.

Yeah, but would a +1 make a difference to that?

(Alternative punchline: "And we all know, you don't hit a girl, +1 or no.")

I'll be here all week.

renau1g · Mar 24, 2010

An Update:

Option 6 - 5 yes (gary, Kal, renau1g, covaithe, THB), 1 no (Ozy )
Option 10 - 4 yes (gary, renau1g, Ozy, THB), 1 no (Kal)

So far there's a few judges who haven't weighed in, but I think by this point it's not too likely they will. As Option 6 just received more votes than 10 yesterday at 5pm-ish than we still have 48 hours before it can pass.

Dunamin · Mar 24, 2010

covaithe said:
"And we all know, you don't hit a girl, +1 or no."

"What about hitting on?"

Yes, that was an obligatory Woe-line(r).

renau1g said:
Option 6 - 5 yes (gary, Kal, renau1g, covaithe, THB), 1 no (Ozy )
Option 10 - 4 yes (gary, renau1g, Ozy, THB), 1 no (Kal)

So far there's a few judges who haven't weighed in, but I think by this point it's not too likely they will. As Option 6 just received more votes than 10 yesterday at 5pm-ish than we still have 48 hours before it can pass.

I actually lean towards 10 since its less of a power increase compared to RAW, but I'm much more interested in resolution than deadlock. So I'll hold off and let the majority decide.

renau1g · Mar 24, 2010

If you want 10, THB wants 10 and I'm leaning 10 we could all change to that one.

Dunamin · Mar 24, 2010

renau1g said:
If you want 10, THB wants 10 and I'm leaning 10 we could all change to that one.

Sure, that works for me (though either way is fine by me, really).

YES to Option 10.

renau1g · Mar 27, 2010

Another Update

Option 6 - 4 yes (gary, Kal, , covaithe, THB), 2 no (Ozy, renau1g)
Option 10 - 5 yes (gary, renau1g, Ozy, THB, Dunamin), 1 no (Kal)

elecgraystone · Mar 27, 2010

TwoHeadsBarking said:
The downside is that it doesn't solve the problem as I see it. By the time you hit level 5, you've already chosen a few feats. Expertise isn't going to ruin diversity at that point. That being said, I wouldn't take Expertise at level 5. If given a choice, I wouldn't take it until it jumps to a +2 to hit, even though my "empirical evidence" shows that +1 to hit would be super good. I'd rather have a familiar, or Bravo, or the d8 curse feat.

Good to see there are others that's take a non-expertise feat.

I think that not forcing an expertise feat at 5th would let the player take thier expertise feat when they start feeling the 'math error'. While the expertise feat doesn't ruin diversity at 5th, allowing the slot to be free would encourage it as at least two of us would take more diverse feats and 'fix' the problem at a later date.

TwoHeadsBarking said:
But the problem, in my view, isn't that characters don't get enough feats. It's the attacks not properly scaling with defenses issue. I think #10 solves it better than #6. I think #6 also solves the issue, don't get me wrong. I just like #10 more. As a judge. As a player, I'd prefer the restriction-less feat.

Well the thing with the scaling if that everyone starts at a different point and it becomes an issue at different levels for different people. Some players might feel the sting right off the bat while others don't well into paragon. I'd much rather take it when I feel it's right for my character instead of setting a single point and saying that's the 'best' time for everyone to take it.

Velmont said:
If a 1 doesn't make a change, let's see my game, Merryl's Rescue.

Never said a +1 didn't change things. If you're seeing that a +1 WOULD make a difference more than a few times, you might be in the 'sweet spot' when it's time to pick up the feat. To trade examples, I can list off about 50 rolls where a +1 wouldn't have helped me in the least and about 2 that it would...

SO it's going to be option 10? Sigh... Could have really used the extra non-expertise feat right now but at least I will not have to change my sheet. Maybe I'll try that new Versatile Expertise feat.