Star Wars Saga Edition / d20 Modern conversions?

So, many people agree that Star Wars Saga Edition is a beautifully designed system. My group is considering jumping in to another d20 Modern campaign, and we were planning on house-ruling the things we felt were a bit clunky the first time around.

I know when it came out many people spoke about converting Saga into modern gaming or even a replacement for D&D. Did any of these things come to anything, such as releasing an OGL document containing a merger of the ideas in Saga with d20 Modern?

There is the Fantasy Concepts product. Because Star Wars Saga Edition isn't OGL, it tried to hunt down similar rules in OGL products and used it as a foundation for fantasy rules. I don't know of any attempt doing something similar for 'modern' games.

Also, Star Wars Saga Edition and Fantasy Concepts are both class/profession based and not class/ability with the adage of Advanced Classes used in Modern d20.

The closest I came was taking the Star Wars Saga talents and readapting back to Modern d20 (along with a few class features from D&D). I have that an a classless spellcasting system hidden somewhere.

I'd rely on SW Saga for characters, skills, and rules, and I'd just import the tech from d20M directly into SW Saga, making whatever conversions are needed.

Armadillo said:

I'd rely on SW Saga for characters, skills, and rules, and I'd just import the tech from d20M directly into SW Saga, making whatever conversions are needed.

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Agreed. There is very little that needs changing really. Remove Jedi. Re-name Nobles into "Professionalals/Academics".

Remove all force powers and related talents. Import in equipment and a few D20 modern skills/talents without correlation in SW:SE.

Excise a few of the more gameist inspired talents and Prestige Classes in SW:SE and just get rid of them in their entirety (Pathfinder prestige class, I am looking at you) and you're good to go.

This is an evening's work, at most. Not a lot to this task. Exceedingly doable.

As for a Saga edition stab at becoming a universal GURPS style game system -- see Gary Sarli's E20 Evolved.

I've recently got it in my head that I want to try converting some of the rules from Pathfinder into my SW SAGA games. One of the things in specific that I have been unhappy about with SAGA is the poor use of rules like Bull (Bantha) Rush, Grappling, Tripping, etc. On the other hand, I really like the use of CMB and CMD in the Pathfinder game.

Needless to say, I think I've bit off more than I can chew.

That e20, though, looks very promising. At the least, it may help me with my own conversions. If Gary Sarli comes out with more specifics, though, I may just use them instead.

That said, if anyone has any suggestions for me on my own work, that would be great.

Blaydsong said:

I've recently got it in my head that I want to try converting some of the rules from Pathfinder into my SW SAGA games. One of the things in specific that I have been unhappy about with SAGA is the poor use of rules like Bull (Bantha) Rush, Grappling, Tripping, etc. On the other hand, I really like the use of CMB and CMD in the Pathfinder game.

Needless to say, I think I've bit off more than I can chew.

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I can completely understand being underwhelmed with the Saga combat manuevers. Most require a (hefty) feat investment, and still aren't worth the action expenditure. (Except for Bantha Rush; a free action after a successful attack to move the target 1 square in any direction, including off a ledge, is pretty sweet. A lesser version needs to exist for those without the feat, though.)

The good news is that Pathfinder-style CMD is easy to incorporate: Fortitude Defense or Damage Threshold (to include sizes). Characters make an attack roll against the defense and you move on. Then the relevant feats can allow you to do the maneuver and deal damage.
That should do most of what you need. Rewrite the maneuvers to be useful enough to use, and Bob's your uncle.

Good luck.

I've been messing around with a Rifts conversion using SAGA. I've got Juicers on the drawing board, and I hashed out a Dragon Hatchling race and class; assumes multiclassing to get perfect conversions, but it looks (maybe/possibly) balanced.

I think I like it, but we haven't sat around the table playing yet. I'm curious about how well the system itself plays in action. ...but it seems to make sense?

Currently I'm enjoying 4e, as my players are newbs. Thing is, the system is fairly... predictable, sort of. You have a list of options that you can do, and people generally stick to those options. My "fear", or at least anxiety, as GM comes from not knowing how to respond to player actions that I'm not prepared for. Oh well, gotta swim some time...

fireinthedust said:

I'm curious about how well the system itself plays in action. ...but it seems to make sense?

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The base system is solid. The condition track can be wonky and unbalanced (especially a powerful Force Wizard with several uses of Force Stun) since it essentially gives all characters only 5 hp against certain kinds of attacks, but that's the only really "broken" spot.
With the options in the later books, Force users (especially Jedi) can be incredibly powerful, but the number of options available actually helps balance it some (too many options, not enough feats / talents to spend). It still gets ridiculous at times.

Overall, the system is solidly heroic. A good basis for any sort of wonky conversion (especially Rifts).

fireinthedust said:

My "fear", or at least anxiety, as GM comes from not knowing how to respond to player actions that I'm not prepared for. Oh well, gotta swim some time...

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It's hard, but I've found that my best GM memories, most told player stories, and best scenes have all been derived from the players doing something totally unexpected. It's hard but it's worth it when you get into it.

Good luck.

ValhallaGH said:

The base system is solid. The condition track can be wonky and unbalanced (especially a powerful Force Wizard with several uses of Force Stun) since it essentially gives all characters only 5 hp against certain kinds of attacks, but that's the only really "broken" spot.

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I've heard that. I tried a game with a Force Wizard, and it's died now. He took out a crab droid with Move Object (flipping it over), so I had to use actions to get back up to keep things moving.
The issue is that you're attacking Defences with Skills, and skills can have that +5 from training as well as stats as well as feats; +15 at first level isn't as hard as it could be, and defenses don't seem to keep up for too long. Maybe I read it wrong...

I don't think that'll be an issue per se. I'm using the Gneech's lovely Sword & Sorcery conversion for the magic system of Rifts; and I may use the Force as the basis for Mind Melters and other psionics. I would have liked it if the two "magic systems" could have worked differently, not just off different stats, but maybe Rifts already had mirroring magic systems. So the Force isn't the only thing out there

My worry is that it won't be enough like Rifts-style magic. DCs for high level spells, or more complex ones, may make high magic out of reach for regular PCs.

I've basically decided I'll also be expanding level ranges to 30, rather than 20 levels, like 4e. That's way down the line, though, as I'll have to crunch out some monsters and some math charts to keep things balanced. It is more Rifts-like, though, as higher level monsters and characters are just that: massively powerful. Ranging things at 20 levels doesn't make sense, even if the PCs will never be that powerful.

I don't know about building monsters for SAGA, but so far I haven't tried.

Cybernetics I'm porting over d20 Future, along with mutations. SW never did enough for gadget-minded PCs, and I think this helps. Also, they're slots to fill with rewards as the campaign progresses.

It's hard, but I've found that my best GM memories, most told player stories, and best scenes have all been derived from the players doing something totally unexpected. It's hard but it's worth it when you get into it.

Good luck.

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Thanks.

I think it comes from a fear of being vulnerable, of not having control. Not that I'm that bad, but at that moment, as GM, I've got a table full of people looking at me and waiting for me to do something. I've seen it in a lot of GMs; some who take on the roll because they're control freaks (which is a surprising inconsistency, as it's so vulnerable to losing that control), and some who are just there because someone needs to do it ot get things rolling.

I'm lucky that I have years of experience, and I've been training myself to think up possible paths players could take when I'm designing. I'll have, for example, a list of probable shops they would want to go to in a town, so they have an NPC ready when they go there.