New adventure path from ENP

Rechan said:

Well honestly, if they're going to have the stats of existing weapons, what's the point of having them?

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Like character names and NPC descriptions - it's flavour.

We haven't decided to use them yet, but the reasoning is flavour.

RangerWickett said:

Actually, I've been thinking on that last concern: the character builder.

The trick is to come up with character options that have minimal impact. It's easy enough to add a couple new powers here and there, some new magic items, but it's hard to swap class options.

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Or you could support Hero lab. Create your own data sets for the campaign. And not have to think about the charcater builder. I know my group would switch over to Hero Lab, if there were Data sets for things like WotBS.

No, please don't make the vast majority of players have to buy an additional character builder program.

I like the thematics of guns in the setting, but keeping the stats the same.

renau1g said:

No, please don't make the vast majority of players have to buy an additional character builder program.

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Don't worry, we're fully cognizant of the role that the CB plays in 4E games. We won't do anthing that's gonna guarantee commercial suicide.

RangerWickett said:

The hardest thing is firearms if we wanted them. I figure the work-around would be, like, just use the stats of longbows for muskets, shortbows for carbines, hand crossbows for pistols. Greatbows would be those rare sniper rifles. (Crossbows and superior crossbows, with their 'load minor,' are kinda sub-par.)

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Are we talking early fire-arms, share the battle-field with swords, sabres, and pikes and made pre-industrialized factory standards.....? If so:

I think a reskin of the crossbows would work with a few tweaks:
Guns attack FORT instead of AC, crit on a 19 or 20 and are vicious weapons.


I hear ya saying "doesn't he mean REF?" Nope. THat was my initial thought but then I thought that old-days gun fire is more about getting hit where it hurts than it is just getting hit. We aren't talking state of the art rifled weapons here, but smooth-bore black powder weapons firing sub-sonic, clunky projectiles that tear chunks of flesh out of the target.
As to the accuracy thing, I think a negative proficiency modifier would be appropriate to apply to black-powder smooth-bores.
And while we are at it, critical fumble with a black-powder should have consequences.

End result: relatively cheap weapons that are 'magic' without actually being {and costing} that +1 bonus cost. They are significantly different from cross-bows and only take a couple pencil marks on the power cards to use.
As they retain the 'load minor', Bows are still viable and can be more lethal in trained hands. The Gun, however, is the great equalizer as a common peasant can take out an armored knight with one.


Of course.. if you are talking post industrialized, rifled, shaped bullets, etc... thats a different story. But not by much.
I think I would stick to using the Crossbow as the base, add a third range increment, remove any negative proficiency modifiers, and remove the critical fumble option. Still crit on 19 to 20 and viscious.

Cause the thing with bullets is that some will simply rip right through soft tissue and cause minimal damage.. while another will richochet off a bone and take a destructive trip through the targets vitals...


But I agree with Morrus.. bullets really are not any more, or less, deadly than a crossbow bolt... just different.....
... at least until you start getting into the age of precision turned steel and cartridges.

*Disregard, I posted in the wrong place. Sorry!*

You probably shouldn't design weapons that target a specific defense. If a seeker wants to snipe with a musket, his powers are (supposedly) balanced partially by what defenses they target.

But ultimately, guns are a minor issue. I'd like a setting where some folks use firearms, but not at the exclusion of most of the traditional fantasy tropes people tend to like in their games.

RangerWickett said:

But ultimately, guns are a minor issue. I'd like a setting where some folks use firearms, but not at the exclusion of most of the traditional fantasy tropes people tend to like in their games.

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I've played with a lot of D&D gun rules. IME, there are two contradictory goals:

1) You want guns (particularly in the hands of PCs) to work in as standard a way as possible. That keeps the fantasy focus, lets you use standard char gen tools and maintains the balance between gun-using and traditional characters.

2) You want guns (particularly in the hands of NPCs) to have a big bang but take a long time to reload. That provides a nice "gun feel" and lets your PCs have appropriate tactics, like charging the enemy while they are trying to reload.

The seperation between PC and NPC stats in 4e makes this easier to accomplish.

-KS

I hate guns in my DnD. They snap my disbelief suspenders too much. They make the setting less fantastic, which makes it harder to accept the actual fantastical stuff.

If they're just reskinned mundane weapons can PCs use them in place of those weapons? If so I think the weapons start to feel too modern with their high accuracy and rates of fire. If PCs won't build characters who use them then use gunpowder in some way to make more interesting enemies to fight and don't worry about PCs using guns.

My 2 cents.