Game Fundamentals - The Illusion of Accomplishment

Celebrim

Legend
So its probably not a big secret that one of the attractions of gaming is that through a game you recieve the illusion of having accomplished something. Whether its Bejewelled Blitz, WoW, Settlers of Cataan, or D&D one of the reasons people play games is for the immediate affirmation of success and accomplishment which in real life generally occurs alot less often and requires alot more effort.

On the whole, I don't think any one here is going to assert that the illusion of accomplishment is in and of itself a bad thing.

However, well before I had any theories about games in general or had read anyone elses theories about games, I had made an assessment that the sort of player most likely to be disruptive at the table and most likely to engage in poor sportsmanship was a class of gamer that I dubbed 'ego gamers'. The ego gamer had invested a large portion of his self-esteem in his ability to achieve success in a game. Or to put it in other terms, for the 'ego gamer' the payoff in the game was almost entirely achieving the illusion of success. For these players, socializing with friends, telling or experiencing a story, mental exploration, or simply the social permission to goof off, play, and be silly that is generally withheld from anyone above 16 unless they are drinking were essentially unimportant. Unless the game provided a regular illusion of success, the 'ego gamer' was discontent and anything that hindered the 'ego gamer' from this goal was hateful. In effect, the 'ego gamer' had taken that regular dose of affirmation that all gamers get when they 'win', found it good indeed, and become a 'affirmation junkey'.

The reason that this tended to become a problem is that the ego gamers I encountered generally defined a successful game as one where they defeated every obstacle put in front of them with as little effort as possible. Any temporary setback (like a fight they were losing), any momentary failure (like a run of bad dice), or any obstacle the DM placed in front of them (like an encounter requiring something other than a straight foward tactic), tended to be met with confusion, dismay, and often outright anger. To avoid these emotions and get back to the fix they crave, the 'ego gamer' generally starts resorting to out of game solutions to the problem. That is, if the dice aren't going there way, then they start cheating. If there current tactics are failing, they resort to either bargaining with the DM or arguing with him. Thus, the ego gamer was particularly prone to becoming 'power gamers', 'rules lawyers', or the more familiar terms I later heard to describe specific instances of what I considered the root behavior.

Now, before this gets much further, let me say that my intention is not to flame 'ego gamers' as purveyors of badwrongfun. We could equally note that the guy who plays because he recieves social permission to goof off can be disruptive by taking that emotional stimulus too far, or that the DM whose sole reason to play is to tell a story is likely to find himself frustrated when the story being created isn't as cool as the one he envisioned before he started and that this leads to all sorts of anti-social behavior as well. It's certainly not my intention to say that 'ego gamers' are worse sorts of gamers than 'roleplayers', who can be just as annoying. Think the the amateur thespians who get off solely on creating wierd, dysfunctional characters with all sorts of emotional baggage, and unusual accents and mannerisms and then insisting that the games role-play revolve around their characters emotional state despite the wishes of the rest of the table. Nor is it necessarily my claim that 'ego gamers' are 'bad roleplayers', as I've met several who - especially when they think an advantage can be achieved by doing it - are some of the best RPers I've ever had the pleasure of sharing a table with. And, many of them become masters of tactics, dungeoneering, and the system as well.

But, still, I am saying that if your sole investment in the game is recieving an immediate reward and affirmation of your awesomeness, it can lead to table conflict, and - to put it in the most charitable way I can - a game that I just don't enjoy either running or playing. As a referee with players like that at the table, I feel used, as if the only reason for my existance was to say "Yes, oh, yes, baby" to the player with as much enthusiasm as I could muster to whatever they said or did. As a player at the table with other players like that, I feel as if the game is a simplistic exercise in dice rolling with a basic structure that works counter to the goal of recieving an affirmation of meaningful success. That is, I don't believe you can win in a game; I don't believe RPGs are competive; you can't meaningfully keep score in most games; I believe all success ultimately comes at the grace of the DM, and I find the measure of the character's success a very poor measurement of my own even for a game. If I wanted the thrill of victory, I'd play something where competiveness was built in, luck was minimized, and obstacles could only be overcome by increasing my personal skill (however trivial that 'skill' might actually be) rather than by increasing arbitrary numbers on the playing peice.

I bring all of this up not because I'm having alot of problems 'in real life' that make me think I've totally misjudged what players think is fun, but because there are increasing divergence in the online community and hints of divergence in the design community over how the potential problem of the 'ego gamer' needs to be addressed. It hasn't been placed in those terms beofre, and I'm not sure that anyone is going to want to place the problem in those terms (perhaps someone could suggest a term that sounds less derogatory), but after participating in scores of threads over the last few years where to me it seemed like that was the underlying issue and what was being discussed was only a special case or proxy argument, I wanted to put it in those terms and see what happened.

There seems to be a rather sizable block of players and designers who believe that addressing the needs of the 'ego gamer' needs to be the overriding concern in game mastery and even game design. That is, the trend in thinking about RPGs seems to be more toward making a system and encouraging game masters to run it in a way that the players recieve a regular and uninterrupted dose of reinforcing affirmation of thier awesomeness. The trend seems to me to be toward ensuring a regular heavy dose of the illusion of success, either to reward existing players or to addict new players. It's my contention (look out, thesis coming) that contrary to the good intentions of the designers, running the game to this end or designing the system to this end (counterintuitively) chases more players from the game than it draws in and ultimately is not satisfying to even the 'ego gamers'.
 
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ggroy

First Post
There's always going to be people who heavily invest their ego into a particular endeavor.

For example, "ego-musicians", "ego-poker players", "ego-golfers", "ego-mathematicians", "ego-lawyers", etc ... are not much different than "ego-gamers".

One major difference is that the "barrier to entry" to becoming an "ego-gamer" is quite low, compared to other niches like music, law, sports, politics, etc ...
 

Negflar2099

Explorer
Let me start off by saying this is a great post. I'm glad you brought this topic up. One time I was DMing for a group that was very focused on success and, as you describe, would balk at any challenge or complain wildly about any setback. When non-stop arguing with me wouldn't work many of the players resorted to cheating. As you did, I felt used, that I was only there to present weaksauce challenges for them to steamroll. They were exactly the ego gamers that you describe.

I agree with you that there is a trend towards games that satisfy the ego gamer. As you point out it's not just RPGs or tabletop games, it's everything. Designers have recently realized that games that provide simple but constant rewards (such as FarmVille or Wow for that matter) keep players addicted and playing. Bottom line (for video games at least) it works. Wow is addictive precisely because of this constant illusion of achievement.

The question is does that translate to pen and paper RPGS? My answer is I don't think so. I think that given the nature of RPGs which tend to have a lot of different playstyles and agendas at a table, focusing on anyone preferred playstyle is bound to alienate the others. If nothing else someone has to DM and personally I don't see how a DM can keep running a game for ego gamers without feeling used and if there's nobody willing to DM then there's no game.

That said I'm a story driven DM to the point where I am constantly fighting my own tendency to just want to railroad the players so I can tell the story I want to tell. Maybe there's a type of DM out there who wouldn't mind running a game just to satisfy his or her friend's egos. I have a hard time picturing it but I suppose it's possible.
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
8>-Much insightful analysis snipped for brevity-<8

It's my contention (look out, thesis coming) that contrary to the good intentions of the designers, running the game to this end or designing the system to this end (counterintuitively) chases more players from the game than it draws in and ultimately is not satisfying to even the 'ego gamers'.

Maybe it can. I think the other point to consider is what the consequences are for “chasing gamers from the game” if the positive ego affirming doggie treats are not used. Do you end up with less overall gamers down the road? Even if you don’t – do you end up with less overall sales?

You just might.

So does the more gamers “down the road” assessment really matter to a game company’s bottom line? I would argue that from a large company like WotC, they have decided that it is not their focus. Don’t get me wrong, lifestyle gamers are great to have and provide a certain level of guaranteed sales for all products over the course of the game’ product cycle. Lifestyle gamers can be a pain in the ass to deal with in terms of customer service and marketing, but having them LEAVE YOUR GAME hurts your company’s bottom line in a measurable and significant way, especially in the later stages of a game’s product cycle when the Lifestyle Gamer’s market share of overall sales of late stage products increases relative to newcomer purchases. So you do want Lifestyle gamers as part of your market. But to maximize profits, I’m not sure that creating them is part of a game company’s focus.

I would argue that managing a game’s “churn” rate is the most important aspect from a large game manufacturer’s viewpoint. On a macro scale, gamers come and go every hour, of every day of the week, every year of the product's life cycle, without cessation or fail. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it, as most of the meta-reasons for people leaving the game have little to do with the game itself, and far more to do with: social factors; moving away; girlfriends & wives; children; new jobs; different activities competing for leisure time; and, people simply entering into different stages in their lives.

Accordingly, companies like WoC adjudge that the big impacts on the player departure aspect of "churn" are, for the most part, judged to be beyond their reasonable control or any element of their game's design.

And in fairness, I think that’s probably an accurate assessment.

So instead, the wise game company focuses upon that aspect of player churn they CAN control – and that’s player acquisition and persuading the new player to stay in the game long enough to at least purchase the core rule books. Any more purchases than that – including the purchase of game accessories or online subscriptions, is absolute gravy.

Sometimes, you need to accept that the game manufacturer’s view of its bottom line and its best interests do not always coincide with the health of your own gaming group or a preferred play style. When it comes to heavy-handed praise and positive reinforcement for the benefit of acquiring new players and new sales from those new players, I think this is one of those times that our overall interests may diverge somewhat from the game company’s.

Great post though!
 
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Obryn

Hero
I'll start by saying that I agree with you that gamers whose ego depends on their characters' success or failure are detrimental to the game. My disagreement is best made with the point, below.

There seems to be a rather sizable block of players and designers who believe that addressing the needs of the 'ego gamer' needs to be the overriding concern in game mastery and even game design. That is, the trend in thinking about RPGs seems to be more toward making a system and encouraging game masters to run it in a way that the players recieve a regular and uninterrupted dose of reinforcing affirmation of thier awesomeness. The trend seems to me to be toward ensuring a regular heavy dose of the illusion of success, either to reward existing players or to addict new players.
I think it's important to make a distinction between players who want to win and players who want to participate. I've seen a lot of confusion between these two goals, and none of it leads to a productive conversation.

As an example, see Morrus's recent post which may or may not have led to this one... Not liking the "stun" or "dominate" conditions in 4e doesn't mean that a player has a great deal of ego invested in winning, or that the DM wants to tilt the field in their favor; it just means that the DM or players want to make sure that they can participate in a meaningful fashion on more rounds. If this leads to easier "victory" conditions along the way, that's a side-effect, not a goal.

In the same way, a disdain for "Save-Or-Die" effects isn't usually geared towards wanting to win fiights more easily. It's geared towards helping an encounter stay tactically interesting for longer, and making sure players aren't left sitting on their hands for most of a fight (or until they can be Raised, or until their new character can show up, etc). It's a shame that SoD (and, the somewhat-related Level Drain) so often get characterized as a kind of litmus test for gamers.

-O
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
There seems to be a rather sizable block of players and designers who believe that addressing the needs of the 'ego gamer' needs to be the overriding concern in game mastery and even game design. That is, the trend in thinking about RPGs seems to be more toward making a system and encouraging game masters to run it in a way that the players recieve a regular and uninterrupted dose of reinforcing affirmation of thier awesomeness. The trend seems to me to be toward ensuring a regular heavy dose of the illusion of success, either to reward existing players or to addict new players. It's my contention (look out, thesis coming) that contrary to the good intentions of the designers, running the game to this end or designing the system to this end (counterintuitively) chases more players from the game than it draws in and ultimately is not satisfying to even the 'ego gamers'.
Worse yet, discussion of the meta-issue -- including this one -- work to shatter the illusion of accomplishment for those who participate. It's a bit like studying humor: the patient seldom survives.

Your thesis seems sensible to me. Reducing the barriers to an accomplishment does cheapen that accomplishment.

However, I don't much like the term "ego gamer". The word "ego" is over used (and frequently misused), and many of its connotations are negative. I can't see a lot of people lining up to self-identify as "ego gamer"s outside of the context of this thread.

Cheers, -- N
 

ggroy

First Post
Of the people I knew of who would fall into the rpg "ego-gamer" category back in the day, they were frequently the same ones who exhibited similar behavior when it came to video games.

At video arcades, these people would be doing stuff like kicking in the coin box, smashing the joystick, etc .... on an arcade machine, whenever their man died in the arcade video game they were playing. When they were playing a video game console at home, they would smash the joystick and/or throw it really hard across the room (sometimes making a new hole in the wall) whenever their man in the video game died. :p
 

Celebrim

Legend
Maybe it can. I think the other point to consider is what the consequences are for “chasing gamers from the game” if the positive ego affirming doggie treats are not used. Do you end up with less overall gamers down the road? Even if you don’t – do you end up with less overall sales?

You just might.

So does the more gamers “down the road” assessment really matter to a game company’s bottom line? I would argue that from a large company like WotC, they have decided that it is not their focus. Don’t get me wrong, lifestyle gamers are great to have and provide a certain level of guaranteed sales for all products over the course of the game’ product cycle. Lifestyle gamers can be a pain in the ass to deal with in terms of customer service and marketing, but having them LEAVE YOUR GAME hurts your company’s bottom line in a measurable and significant way, especially in the later stages of a game’s product cycle when the Lifestyle Gamer’s market share of overall sales of late stage products increases relative to newcomer purchases. So you do want Lifestyle gamers as part of your market. But to maximize profits, I’m not sure that creating them is part of a game company’s focus.

I would argue that managing a game’s “churn” rate is the most important aspect from a large game manufacturer’s viewpoint.

I would generally agree with the thrust of this argument, but I think it misses one very fundamental aspect of what drives the sales of your game that, when included in your analysis, I think totally reverses the conclusion you reach.

And that missing point is that virtually all game masters are 'lifestyle gamers', and by the very nature of game mastery, virtually all good game masters are 'lifestyle gamers'. The success of your PnP game depends on something which has no real parallel in other types of gaming. It doesn't really matter at all how many players you have; it only matters how many game masters you have. Your goal as a game creator isn't to get players. The base of players is comparitively infinite. The limited resources you are try to compete for and expand is game masters, because if you have GM's, then you'll have players.

I believe based on my recent experience that the reason that there are 24 million lapsed players and only 1.5 million current D&D players, is that there are a couple of million missing good DM's out there. If your sales are lagging, its because you either lost or didn't create game masters, and the reason D&D historically dominated the industry for most of the industries existance is that it did the best job of creating game masters.

Looking at just my own situation, when D&D chased me from there game by abandoning me, they lost (already) about $400 dollars in sales. I just hauled in 7 players that either have never played or haven't played since 2nd so far as I can tell primarily for lack of a DM. If the game proceeds like games in the past, all those players would end up going out and buying supplements at some point. But since I've economically become my own game publishing company for the moment, WotC is locked out of my local market. I'm the 'retailer' in this equation, not even the esteemed but humble LFGS. I'm the one determining whether the product gets sold. If I don't play, they don't reach my market. If I don't buy, they don't reach my market.

The fundamental problem is that on the 'doggie treats' front, not only can PnP systems not compete as an affirmation delivery system with the direct mechanical stimulus injection you can get from a computer game, but a system geared to doing that offers nothing to the game master - or if it did, it would create dysfunctional ego driven DMs. And while a game can endure a ego driven player, an ego driven game master kills the game in very short order and all those new players at best go back to their WoW. In actuality, they probably never leave it, because nothing in this model creates a game master.
 

I'll start by saying that I agree with you that gamers whose ego depends on their characters' success or failure are detrimental to the game. My disagreement is best made with the point, below.


I think it's important to make a distinction between players who want to win and players who want to participate. I've seen a lot of confusion between these two goals, and none of it leads to a productive conversation.

As an example, see Morrus's recent post which may or may not have led to this one... Not liking the "stun" or "dominate" conditions in 4e doesn't mean that a player has a great deal of ego invested in winning, or that the DM wants to tilt the field in their favor; it just means that the DM or players want to make sure that they can participate in a meaningful fashion on more rounds. If this leads to easier "victory" conditions along the way, that's a side-effect, not a goal.

In the same way, a disdain for "Save-Or-Die" effects isn't usually geared towards wanting to win fiights more easily. It's geared towards helping an encounter stay tactically interesting for longer, and making sure players aren't left sitting on their hands for most of a fight (or until they can be Raised, or until their new character can show up, etc). It's a shame that SoD (and, the somewhat-related Level Drain) so often get characterized as a kind of litmus test for gamers.

-O

I think it is more a case of some people never being happy with anything:

I want more tactical options! (enter conditions)
I hate conditions imposed on ME!!! ( return to simple HP attrition)
I want more tactical options!

It is the never ending loop of the perpetually dissatisfied. :p
 

Celebrim

Legend
I think it's important to make a distinction between players who want to win and players who want to participate. I've seen a lot of confusion between these two goals, and none of it leads to a productive conversation.

So, let me get this straight... You are saying that since you think you can disguish between those that want the immediate gratification of victory vs. the immediate gratification of participation, that any talk of the role of delayed gratification would be unproductive and sign of confusion on the part of the poster? In addition to the fact that I think you are hiding your terms within other terms that imply them, since 'participation' in the context you are using it implies 'successful participation' and excludes 'unsuccessful participation', I think you are very much missing the point. For one thing, it seems to me that the entire thrust of your argument makes an assumption about the nature of what it means to play an RPG that pushes the reader to accept that the point of playing an RPG is to recieve the illusion of success. Your definitions of 'participate' and 'victory' are locked into mechanical 'illusion of success' feedback loops.
 

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