companies staying away from rpg gamers

thecasualoblivion · Jun 23, 2010

FireLance said:
I think the real question is: what proportion of those Green Lantern fans are also tabletop gamers?

If, indeed, what the blog post suggested is true, and there is something about tabletop gamers that causes a greater proportion of them to become toxic customers, then it would only be a key issue for industries where tabletop gamers form a significant proportion of the customers. Presumably, even though some tabletop gamers are consumers of superhero-related media, they could be only a small proportion of all consumers of superhero-related media.

Thanks to previous successes, superhero movies have more inherent mainstream appeal. Inherent mainstream appeal can drown out the fanbois. RPGs don't have that.

pawsplay · Jun 23, 2010

D&D fanboys are, in fact, ultimately responsible for World of Warcraft. Anyone want to argue against that?

haakon1 · Jun 23, 2010

Malcolm is such a "jerkwad", to use his infantile phrase, that his opinions aren't worth anyone's time.

Next time we need to discuss the view of an idiot, please post them here instead of a link to up his view count.

Mod edit: Guess what, folks! Name calling and insult are explicitly against the rules, and will get you booted from a thread!

pawsplay · Jun 23, 2010

haakon1 said:
Malcolm is such a "jerkwad", to use his infantile phrase, that his opinions aren't worth anyone's time.

Next time we need to discuss the view of an idiot, please post them here instead of a link to up his view count.

Let's not name call. His ideas can fail to stand up for themselves.

Malcom's post said:
1.Please the old fans and ask them to perform outreach to new fans in exchange for cookies and ego stroking.
2.Gradually alter the game to get new fans and migrate old fans (Helooooo new edition! Metaplot!)
3.Hit the new fans hard; invite the old ones to come along for the ride, but don’t hold up the bus for them, so to speak.
Gamer conservatism has poisoned #2 to the point where it’s basically firing the fans anyway.

Suuuure. That's exactly what happened with BESM 2e, and Vampire Revised, and D&D 3.5, and the rest. Riiiiight.

FireLance · Jun 23, 2010

pawsplay said:
I think it does, actually. "The malice" in this case being human nature in all its cantankerous glory, not original sin or something dramatically overblown. Compared to soccer riots or what passes for civic discourse on my Senator's Facebook page, I think we'll be okay.

Except that the blog post suggests that it's more common among tabletop gamers than among the population in general. But you're right to a certain extent - it's not a big deal. The mainstream media companies will still go on making money (or not). Tabletop gamers will still be targeted by marketing, just not in their capacity as tabletop gamers. That is all.

pawsplay · Jun 23, 2010

FireLance said:
Except that the blog post suggests that it's more common among tabletop gamers than among the population in general. .

Perhaps. But almost certainly not more common than among other fandoms. Certainly not more than MMO fandoms.

Rechan · Jun 23, 2010

The fact that they succeeded despite the malice of people like that (which, as the blog post suggests, have a greater than normal chance of being tabletop gamers) does not mean that we should condone or accept the malice.

pawsplay said:
I think it does, actually. "The malice" in this case being human nature in all its cantankerous glory, not original sin or something dramatically overblown. Compared to soccer riots or what passes for civic discourse on my Senator's Facebook page, I think we'll be okay.

So you think we should condone people being jerks? Honestly?

The only reason why ENWorld et al is NOT like your Senator's facebook or a soccer riot is because the Mods don't tolerate that crap. There's a reason that this forum has rules against bad behavior. You're suggesting that bad behavior is just human nature so hey who cares. People can disagree and state their opinions without malice. What do we get for not condoning or accepting it, exactly?

fanboy2000 · Jun 23, 2010

Hussar said:
I think if you want a fairly concrete example of exactly what's being talked about here, look at the commentary to the recent D&D Tries to Lure Back Players on CNN

I mean, here's an article about D&D on one of the most mainstream media outlets on the planet, yet, the first three comments I can currently see read:

I don't think it's all that bad. That thread, like this one, shows a tension between tabletop rpgers and the companies that make them. For many of us, our hobby is just playing the games, it's buying them. And the games are a luxury item. We all know that each book is a luxury item, so I think it's makes us more cynical of the companies that make them.

Erik Mona said:
Haven't you heard? Companies are staying away from superheroes.

I think there is a difference between super hero fans and comic book fans. A person can be a fan of Spider-Man, watch the movies, the cartoon, and read the numerous Spider-Man books and never pick-up a comic. Jim Butcher came out with one last year.

In fact, I haven't seen any evidence that the people who make superhero movies and tv shows try to please comic book fans at all, despite the fact that they're the most natural audience for the movie tv show.

My girlfriend loves the X-Men, doesn't own a single X-Men comic. She likes them because of the 90s cartoon. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? The difference between the cartoon I grew up with and the original Mirage comics is the difference between an apple and New York Strip Steak.

pawsplay said:
D&D fanboys are, in fact, ultimately responsible for World of Warcraft. Anyone want to argue against that?

Not me. You may not want to tell Mr. T that though, he might start shooting Snickers at you.

Leatherhead · Jun 23, 2010

pawsplay said:
D&D fanboys are, in fact, ultimately responsible for World of Warcraft. Anyone want to argue against that?

That depends on what you mean by "ultimately."

If by ultimately, you mean some guys who really liked DnD gave rise to the video game RPG genre, which eventually lead to the creation of WoW, then that's technically correct.

But then again, you could say the guys who invented chess are ultimately responsible for World of Warcraft using the same logic.

If you are talking about someone on the dev team being a DnD fanboy, well that is something else.

pemerton · Jun 23, 2010

Sammael said:
IMO, what they shouldn't do is let the core audience go, even if a part of that core audience is made of unwashed, abrasive, socially inept people. Just make sure that they don't give a damn about your other D&D-themed products, and they'll leave them (and the new customers) alone.

If the blog post is correct, though, this is hard to do, because those hardcore unwashed will hang around your more peripheral products and drive off the new customers you were looking for.

billd91 said:
For anyone who thinks gamers are somehow special in their internet rudeness, snark, and general idiocy, go check some political discussions on the online newspapers or political blogs, the talk-back comments for any political story. Heck, go check places like Yahoo Answers for any political questions. You'll find that gamers are not the most unhinged people on the internet.

I think the difference is that politics is worth arguing about - sometimes, it's worth killing about. Games probably aren't.