Converting First Edition Monsters

Shade

Monster Junkie
Cleon said:
How big are these things?

Cleon said:
They've got half the HD of a regular roper, so are they half the size?

It says they are 5' tall, which makes 'em little over half a roper's height.

Cleon said:
Their "flame ropes" ought to do some fire damage, surely?

Definitely. In fact, I'd argue they do only fire damage (as a roper's strands deal no damage).

Cleon said:
I prefer freyar's approach of modifying a Roper rather than modifying a Fire Elemental.

Take a Roper, add the Fire subtype, halve the HD, subtract half a size step from its physical stats (-4 Str, -2 Con).

I'm fine with modifying the basic abilities of a roper, but these things are clearly composed entirely of flame, so I'd prefer 'em be elementals or outsiders like most other creatures from Elemental Plane of Fire.

Also, if we simply add fire subtype and damage, they are little more than a roper with one of the many "fiery" creature templates applied. :(
 

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Cleon

Legend
It says they are 5' tall, which makes 'em little over half a roper's height.

Definitely. In fact, I'd argue they do only fire damage (as a roper's strands deal no damage).

I'm fine with modifying the basic abilities of a roper, but these things are clearly composed entirely of flame, so I'd prefer 'em be elementals or outsiders like most other creatures from Elemental Plane of Fire.

Also, if we simply add fire subtype and damage, they are little more than a roper with one of the many "fiery" creature templates applied. :(

Well since you're dead set against Aberration I'd be OK with Outsider (Extraplanar, Fire) like a Salamander.

I'd dropped their Int to 4, since their owner regards them as "semi-sentient".

Here's an outline:

Flame Roper
Medium Outsider (Extraplanar, Fire)
Hit Dice: 5d8+10 (32 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+2 Dex, +8 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+7
Attack: Strand +7 ranged touch (1d6 fire plus drag) or bite +7 melee (1d8+3 plus 1d6 fire)
Full Attack: 6 strands +7 ranged touch (1d6 fire plus drag) and bite +7 melee (1d8+3 plus 1d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (50 ft. with strand)
Special Attacks: Drag, heat, strands, weakness
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and fire, low-light vision, mimic fire tree, spell resistance 25?, vulnerability to cold
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +7
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 4, Wis 16, Cha 12
Skills: 5 at 8 ranks (Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot?)
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative?
Environment: ?
Organization: Solitary, pair, or cluster (3-6)
Challenge Rating: 4?
Treasure: No coins; 50% goods (stone only); no items
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: 6-9 HD (Medium); 10-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

Combat

Drag (Ex): If a flame roper hits with a strand attack, the strand latches onto the opponent's body. This deals no damage but drags the stuck opponent 10 feet closer each subsequent round (provoking no attack of opportunity) unless that creature breaks free, which requires a DC 18 Escape Artist check or a DC 14 Strength check. The check DCs are Strength-based, and the Escape Artist DC includes a +4 racial bonus. A flame roper can draw in a creature within 10 feet of itself and bite with a +4 attack bonus in the same round. A strand has 5 hit points (10 hit points for a Large flame roper) and can be attacked by making a successful sunder attempt. However, attacking a flame roper's strand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the strand is currently attached to a target, the flame roper takes a -4 penalty on its opposed attack roll to resist the sunder attempt. Severing a strand deals no damage to a flame roper.

Heat (Ex): A flame roper generates so much heat that its mere touch deals additional fire damage.

Mimic Fire Tree (Ex): or fiery camouflage?

Strands (Ex): Most encounters with a flame roper begin when it fires strong, sticky strands of solidified fire. The creature can have up to six strands at once, and they can strike up to 50 feet away (no range increment). If a strand is severed, the flame roper can extrude a new one on its next turn as a free action.

Weakness (Ex): A flame roper's strands can sap an opponent's strength. Anyone grabbed by a strand must succeed on a DC 18 Fortitude save or take 2d8 points of Strength damage. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Skills: *Flame ropers have a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks in stony or icy areas.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
That's essentially what I had in mind. I think we should change the strands a bit to make 'em loop around victims rather than be sticky. That just doesn't sit right with me for some reason.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Looks about right to me, too. I'd go with a camouflage-type ability here: make a Spot or Knowledge (the planes) check to tell that they aren't a fire tree or more mundane sort of fire.

Not sure if I prefer outsider or elemental for these.
 

Cleon

Legend
That's essentially what I had in mind. I think we should change the strands a bit to make 'em loop around victims rather than be sticky. That just doesn't sit right with me for some reason.

Well the difference would mainly be cosmetic:

Strands (Ex): Most encounters with a flame roper begin when it fires strands of solidified fire which wrap around any target they hit with a ranged touch attack. The creature can have up to six strands at once, and they can strike up to 50 feet away (no range increment). If a strand is severed, the flame roper can extrude a new one on its next turn as a free action.
 

Cleon

Legend
Looks about right to me, too. I'd go with a camouflage-type ability here: make a Spot or Knowledge (the planes) check to tell that they aren't a fire tree or more mundane sort of fire.

Not sure if I prefer outsider or elemental for these.

I prefer Outsider.
 



Cleon

Legend
We can drop Mimic Fire Tree, I think, since it has Camouflage. Any other specials for this?

We'll need to write up a Camouflage SQ for them.

Do we want to reduce the Roper strand's 2d8 weakness to 1d10 or so, since the flame version is a size smaller?
 


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