What's on your mind?
+ Log in or register to post
Results 11 to 20 of 111
Thread: Incarnum in Pathfinder
Saturday, 18th September, 2010, 03:45 AM #1
Scout (Lvl 6)
Incarnum in Pathfinder
Background to this post: a friend and I have been converting our old 3.5 worlds over to PF recently, but we both ran into the stumbling block that Incarnum was actually a fairly significant part of our settings and the classes as-is were usually considered weak for 3.5 (with the Totemist generally being considered the only one really capable of standing with the powerful 3.5 classes). Obviously, that meant that they'd be too weak to import into PF directly, so we needed to convert them and add powers much like the old core classes got in the upgrade.
We got a third friend involved who was just starting a PF game in a homebrew world, and after the conversion work was mostly done started a playtest of the conversion by putting an Incarnate PC (Chaotic) into his game (played by me). So far the character seems to be working well, from what I've been able to judge; he started at 6th but has advanced with the party to the current 8th (and close to 9th, so we should hit it in a session or two). His damage output has been low, but his defenses and utility abilities have largely made up for it, particularly in his Share Incarnum Radiance ability which has helped the party cover wide combats more than once. He doesn't overshadow other party members, but also has not particularly been overshadowed by them except in the damage area (which I already noted).
Discussion between the three of us has largely petered out on the Incarnum conversion, but I've decided to post this thread here because others on ENWorld might find this useful- and perhaps some of you will have comments to add as well. We actually did convert all three core Incarnum classes, not just the Incarnate, but the only one tested so far is Incarnate (and specifically, Chaotic-aligned, which itself was often seen as the weakest option for that class). I'll put each class into its own post for clarity, following this one.
First, a couple of general principles. We agreed that given the bennies the spellcasting classes received in PF (unlimited-use cantrips, level-based powers such as the Sorcerer Bloodline abilities, higher-level Domain abilities for the Cleric, and School powers for the Wizard), the Incarnum classes should be similarly boosted. We did this in two ways: first, each of the two "full meldshaper" classes, the Incarnate and Totemist, were given a boost of +2 to their essentia pools at every 5th level- effectively giving them a bonus "Bonus Essentia" feat at each one; and second, pushing up chakra openings so that Incarnum characters would start at level 1 with 1 Chakra Bind and a Chakra to bind to (this, because most of the really spell-worthy powers of Soulmelds come from their Chakra Binds). The Soulborn, being a "half meldshaper" much like the Paladin and Ranger are "half casters," doesn't get Chakra Binds at level 1 (but does get them much earlier than in 3.5), and also gets the essentia boost only at levels 10 and 20 (but its essentia progression had been reworked in my own houserules ages ago to give the class a boost back in 3.5, and we used that table in the new version so it's considerably different anyway). Finally, because PF casters who prepare spells have the rule allowing them to abandon spells and switch in new ones given 15 minutes, we created a similar "15 Minute Rule" for meldshapers as well: to whit, they can unshape one Soulmeld and create a new one to replace it given 15 minutes.
It's worth noting that the 15-minute rule has already been used several times by my 8th-level Incarnate to switch Soulmeld configurations when circumstances demanded it, and the extra versatility has proven very helpful in every case. This rule alone gives Incarnum users a serious boost when compared with previous classes, though since the Soulmelds themselves are generally balanced well against other classes' powers, not an overpowering one.
EDIT 12-30-2013: For those coming late to the thread, the early posts are more background information now than directly-useful current-version house rules- you'll want to see the posts listed in the list below for the most current versions available. Most of it is past post #53 or thereabouts, May 2013. Also note that the standard shorthand acronym for Magic of Incarnum, for this thread, is MoI. Hopefully these links won't break the next time the board changes!
post #6 has an explanation of Soulmeld Shorthand (used extensively elsewhere in the thread, including in every soulmeld list contained herein, and also just a very handy thing to have when using Incarnum characters and critters in actual game play)
post #53 rules for Researching Incarnum- creating new Soulmelds, upgrading existing ones, and incorporating the new stuff into your character.
post #64 current version of the Foundationist (an elemental-Incarnum base class) including 3 Archetypes
post #10 Foundationist Universal soulmeld list (post #88 for complete descriptions like in MoI)
post #11 Foundationist Air soulmeld list (post #89 for complete descriptions like in MoI)
post #12 Foundationist Earth soulmeld list (post #90 for complete descriptions like in MoI)
post #13 Foundationist Fire soulmeld list (post #91 for complete descriptions like in MoI)
post #14 Foundationist Water soulmeld list (post #92 for complete descriptions like in MoI)
post #59 current version of the True Necrocarnate (a Rogue-like base class based on Necrocarnum) including 2 Archetypes
post #72 the Necrocarnum Thug Archetype for True Necrocarnate
post #48 True Necrocarnate soulmeld list (post #93 for complete descriptions like in MoI)
post #94 contains Stirge Proboscis, a new Totemist soulmeld which the True Necrocarnate also gains access to
post #54 current version of the Elementborn (an elemental-Incarnum Alternate Class for the Soulborn)
post #60 current version of the Incarnate including 2 Archetypes, and the Incarnate of Balance (Incarnates can be True Neutral now)
post #55 current version of the Soulborn (well, its class table anyway)
post #58 two Soulborn Archetypes
post #72 the Soulknight Archetype for Soulborn
post #62 three soulmelds for the alignments NOT covered in MoI, specifically Lawful, Balance, and Chaotic
post #63 current version of the Totemist including 2 Archetypes
post #94 three new soulmelds for Totemist (based on Aranea, Hydra, and Stirge)
post #83 the Bluesmith NPC Incarnum class
post #66 the Hauntshaper Prestige Class
Non-Incarnum Class Options:
post #72 the Cavalier Order of the Azure Monolith
post #73 Alchemist options (new Discoveries, new Archetype called Soulfuser)
post #75 Barbarian Rage Powers
post #76 Cleric Domains and Subdomains
post #77 new Oracle Archetype (Soulspeaker)
post #78 Rogue Talents
post #79 new Sorcerer Bloodline (Soultouched)
post #80 new Witch Patron theme, and Witch spell list incorporating MoI spells
post #81 spell lists for other classes not mentioned in MoI (Antipaladin, Inquisitor, Magus, and Summoner)
post #56 updates to feats from MoI and explanation of how Incarnum feats work in PF
post #57 new feats (mostly, though not entirely, Incarnum feats)
post #86 an experimental new type of feat called Metameld Feats
post #73 two new "Spirit" spells (included with the Alchemist because they're also Extracts)
post #74 "Mass" versions of the two new Spirit spells
post #82 a non-Incarnum spell called Detect Wealth included because a new soulmeld uses/references it
post #91 a non-Incarnum spell called Magma Bombs included because a new soulmeld uses/references it
Ultimate Campaign options:
post #82 new feats and soulmelds using rules introduced in UCA as well as "Pathfinder Player's Companion: Quests & Campaigns" (QC)
post #84 new Kingdom Buildings
post #85 Retraining rules
Last edited by paradox42; Friday, 3rd October, 2014 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Added explanation and ToC with links in first post of where the current-version meat is located in the thread."I am a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail! Tremble at my illogical glory!" -The Tongue is Mightier Than the Sword, OotS, Dragon #345
"Come to the Far Realmy side...we have pseudonatural cookies..." - Tlin, Alienoid Warlock, during a game session in March 2007
By airwalkrr in forum House Rules, Homebrews, & Conversion LibraryReplies: 1Last Post: Sunday, 28th April, 2013, 02:03 AM
By Arivendel in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR GamingReplies: 2Last Post: Thursday, 16th October, 2008, 04:26 AM
By DevlinStormweaver in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR GamingReplies: 3Last Post: Wednesday, 13th September, 2006, 03:42 PM
By Crothian in forum Fan ReviewsReplies: 3Last Post: Friday, 18th November, 2005, 10:18 PM
By Land Outcast in forum General RPG DiscussionReplies: 7Last Post: Tuesday, 5th July, 2005, 01:47 PM