Sorcerer spell selection

Tilenas

Explorer

• Sep 28, 2010

• #1

Hello fellow EnWorlders,
During tonight's session a question on how a sorcerer casts his spells came up. The player of our group's sorcerer (level 10) argued that he could cast fireball 17 times a day, which is his spell capacity from 3rd-5th level + a ridiculous amount of bonus spells from charisma.
I argued that casting a lower level spell through a higher level spell slot would cause those spells to have a increased casting time of one round (like metamagic feats).
Which is it?

 

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Dandu

First Post

• Sep 28, 2010

• #2

RAW, I don't believe a sorcerer can cast a 3rd level spell in a 5th level slot without using a Metamagic feat, though that's always seemed silly to me.

Wizards can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots without incurring an increase in casting time. Given that, I'd allow Sorcerers to use a higher level slot to cast a lower level spell.

 

S

shadyizok

Explorer

• Sep 28, 2010

• #3

Nowhere in the sorcerers description does it state that it can burn higher lvl spellslots on lower lvl spells. So by RAW you probably can't (unless this has been specified somewhere else).

You could make a houserule though, and personnaly I wouldn't up the casting time for it. Worse enough that you've got to be using that lvl 4 or 5 slot on a fireball instead of an orb of fire, black tentacles, teleport etc.


edit:
arggh. ninja'dd

 

Dross

Explorer

• Sep 28, 2010

• #4

Agree with Shadyizok & Dandu

To provide some evidence from the PHB:

Sorcerer: He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. (pg 54, 2nd sentence of last paragraph of the spell section)

Wizard/Preparing Wizard Spells: A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. (pg 178, Spell Slots, 3rd sentence).*

* Since this section is refering to wizards, it does not follow that this means sorcerers (or bards) can fill lower level spells into higher slots. For that to happen sorcerers would have to be specifically called out.

 

Dandu

First Post

• Sep 28, 2010

• #5

Note: if you rule that the sorcerer cannot do so without applying metamagic, you've just encouraged him to use metamagicked fireballs at every opportunity...

 

O

Ogrehatescomputers

First Post

• Sep 28, 2010

• #6

we always ruled that sorc could use a higher lvl slot for a lower lvl spell, never needed a feat to do so. It seemed strange to us that spell caster who doesnt have to prepare his spells wouldnt be able to do so. Either way though, if he has to take the feat the fine. Then he can caste all those fireballs. lol. The Complete Divine says the same about the favored soul, and we have always let people convert a high lvl spel slot for a low lvl spell. Email wizards. They usually answer people.

 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer

• Sep 28, 2010

• #7

Casting Spells :: d20srd.org
"If you’re a bard or sorcerer, you can select any spell you know, provided you are capable of casting spells of that level or higher."

Arcane Spells :: d20srd.org
"The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his or her due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower level."

Divine Spells :: d20srd.org
"A good cleric (or a cleric of a good deity) can spontaneously cast a cure spell in place of a prepared spell of the same level or higher, but not in place of a domain spell. An evil cleric (or a cleric of an evil deity) can spontaneously cast an inflict spell in place of a prepared spell (one that is not a domain spell) of the same level or higher."

Divine Spells :: d20srd.org
"A druid can spontaneously cast a summon nature’s ally spell in place of a prepared spell of the same level or higher."

But hey...don't let that whole bucketful of RAW and RAI get in the way of screwing over a sorcerer based on a single piece of vague RAW, right? We all know Clerics and Druids have greater mastery over spontaneous casting than those pathetic bards and sorcerers who do absolutely nothing but that, given that they got explicit call-outs letting them use higher level slots, after all.

 

Last edited: Sep 28, 2010

J

Jhaelen

First Post

• Sep 28, 2010

• #8

StreamOfTheSky said:

But hey...don't let that whole bucketful of RAW and RAI get in the way of screwing over a sorcerer based on a single piece of vague RAW, right?

Click to expand...

Yup, especially since the sorcerer is screwing himself by casting fireball all the time

 

Thanee

First Post

• Sep 28, 2010

• #9

Tilenas said:

I argued that casting a lower level spell through a higher level spell slot would cause those spells to have a increased casting time of one round (like metamagic feats).

Click to expand...

Great. And what rules do you base this idea on? He isn't using a metamagic feat, after all.

Which is it?

Click to expand...

The obvious one.

Bye
Thanee

 

Tilenas

Explorer

• Sep 28, 2010

• #10

The obvious one.
[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, Ma'am, but it wasn't obvious to me. And I'd appreciate it if you did contribute in a constructive way.

Now, back on topic: Stream provided the quotes I was looking for. I had only looked at the sorcerer's write up ("He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level period", and at the casting time entry (which doesn't clarify anything).

Not that it would matter much, but my reasoning was that choosing a lower level spell expands the sorcerer's versatility, which should he his weak spot. To counter it, he already has a much greater amount of spells per day at his disposal (compared to the wizard). Hence I thought that it had to have some disadvantage to it if he wanted to cast even more spells of a certain level.