Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

freyar · Mar 24, 2011

I'm inclined to go with a strong CR 1 but am willing to wait to see what Cleon and Mortis think

Mortis · Mar 25, 2011

I don't think they're sufficently better than standard lizardfolk to warrant CR2. We've had this discussion before (IIRC) but I sometimes think it's a shame that there aren't fractional CRs above CR1.

Mortis

Cleon · Mar 25, 2011

freyar said:
I'm inclined to go with a strong CR 1 but am willing to wait to see what Cleon and Mortis think

I'd go for CR 2.

Firstly, going to 3 Hit Dice improves their attacks and secondary saves. Secondly, their +5 NA synergies nastily with artificial armour - stick one in studded leather with a heavy shield and it becomes AC 20. Equip one in the same fashion as a Bugbear and they'd be nastier than said Bugbear.

Oh, their attack lines are currently those of a regular lizardfolk. They haven't been adjusted for the higher BAB and Str:

Attack: Claw +4 melee (1d4+2) or club +4 melee (1d6+12 or javelin +2 ranged (1d6+2)
Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee (1d4+2) and bite +2 melee (1d4+1); or club +4 melee (1d6+2) and bite +2 melee (1d4+1); or javelin +2 ranged (1d6+2)

Mortis · Mar 28, 2011

Ah... Now that Cleon has updated the attack line, I'm changing my vote to CR2.

Mortis

freyar · Mar 30, 2011

Mortis said:
Ah... Now that Cleon has updated the attack line, I'm changing my vote to CR2.

Mortis

Good with me, too.

Cleon · Mar 31, 2011

freyar said:
Good with me, too.

Sounds like everyone's happy then!

Anything left?

Mortis · Apr 1, 2011

Cleon said:
Anything left?

Organisation - Borrow from Lizardfolk?
Treasure - Borrow from Lizardfolk? (I can see a theme)
Level Adjustment - Did we agree on +1?

Oh, plus Description, fluff, tactics etc.

Mortis

Cleon · Apr 2, 2011

Mortis said:
Organisation - Borrow from Lizardfolk?

Shazaks appear to be about as numerous as AD&D Lizard Men, so the basic organisation is OK. However, they also ride Mobats, so I'd add them to the organisation.

A standard Dire Bat / Mobat can carry up to 172 pounds when flying (Str 17 light load of 86 lbs time 2 for being Large). 172 lbs is significantly less than the weight of a Shazak. We'd need a Huge Mobat (e.g. advanced to 10+ HD) to carry a armoured Shazak leader, since they can fly with 1064 lb loads.

We could make them lighter than a standard lizard folk - they are a foot shorter, after all. If we make them 5-6 footers instead of 6-7 footers they'd weigh 125-160 pounds. It makes their higher Strength a little odd, but we don't have to worry about the Huge mobats.

So, something like:

Organization: Gang (2-3), band (6-10 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 leader of 3rd-6th level and 0-2 mobats), or tribe (30-60 plus 2 lieutenants of 3rd-6th level and 1 leader of 4th-10th level and 2-8 mobats)

Mortis said:
Treasure - Borrow from Lizardfolk? (I can see a theme)

The Treasure Types are different, AD&D Lizard Men have D, while Shazaks have A (plus K individually):

Type A:
1,000-3,000 copper pieces: 25%
200-2,000 silver pieces: 30%
1,000-6,000 gold pieces: 40%
300-1,800 platinum or electrum pieces: 35%
10-40 gems: 60%
2-12 art objects: 50%
Any 3 magical items: 30%

Type D:
1,000-6,000 copper pieces: 10%
1,000-10,000 silver pieces: 15%
1,000-3,000 gold pieces: 50%
100-600 platinum or electrum pieces: 15%
1-10 gems: 30%
1-6 art objects: 25%
Any 2 magical items + 1 potion: 15%

So, that's roughly twice as many gems and art objects, the same number of magic items (although without restricting one to a potion) and 2-5 times as much coins. That suggests:

Treasure: Double coins, double goods, standard items

Mortis said:
Level Adjustment - Did we agree on +1?

+1 LA is fine, methinks.

Mortis said:
Oh, plus Description, fluff, tactics etc.

Mortis

I'd like to leave that until we have all the stats ironed out.

Speaking of which, the Shazak still has a basic Lizardfolk's saves.

Its Humanoid HD give it Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1. Its ability bonuses are Con +2, Dex +0 and Wis +0.

That works out to:

Saves: Fort +3, Ref +3, and Will +1.

Anything else in the stats?