My PF Questions

SeaJay · Jul 9, 2012

I don't understand the diagram on page 194.

Specifically where it says Kyra (no. 3) cannnot draw a line toward the ogre. Sure she can't, because the lines chosen are clearly obstructed by obstacles.

What I don't understand is why they didn't choose the 45 degree angle/line that neatly bisects the ogre in half.

Noir le Lotus · Jul 9, 2012

Malgwyn said:
I don't understand the diagram on page 194.

Specifically where it says Kyra (no. 3) cannnot draw a line toward the ogre. Sure she can't, because the lines chosen are clearly obstructed by obstacles.

What I don't understand is why they didn't choose the 45 degree angle/line that neatly bisects the ogre in half.

I don't know which version of the rulebook you have, but on mine (5th printing), the text says : "Kyra attacks at range, and must pick one of the corners of her square to determine cover. Some of these lines pass through a solid surface, meaning that the ogre has cover."

As all the lines drawn from the Kyra's square corner can"t reach all the corners of the ogre space, then the ogre has cover and Kyra will suffer the appropriate penalty on her ranger attack.

GlassEye · Jul 9, 2012

The rule for determining cover from ranged attacks is as follows:

To determine whether your target has cover from your
ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line
from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes
through a square or border that blocks line of effect or
provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature,
the target has cover (+4 to AC).

The player of Kyra picks a corner and will obviously pick the corner that looks like it will be able to attack clearly. But that player has to draw a line to each of the corners of the ogre's square (note the 'If any line' phrasing); if any of them pass through an obstruction then the ogre gets cover. They could have drawn the line that bisects the ogre but they would still have to check the corners to either side.

Edit: Ninja'd!

SeaJay · Jul 9, 2012

Ah right, 'any' line does make a difference. Missed that one.

Sorry :blush:

SeaJay · Jul 9, 2012

Page 398: Table 12-3

I checked what 6 CR 12 creatures would be on table 12-3. The calculator said 115,200 but the table says 102,400.

Table 12-3 was never meant to be mathematically correct?

I mean, if I want to know what 8 CR 15 creatures are, just look it up on the table and forget calculators?

N'raac · Jul 9, 2012

Malgwyn said:
Page 398: Table 12-3

I checked what 6 CR 12 creatures would be on table 12-3. The calculator said 115,200 but the table says 102,400.

Table 12-3 was never meant to be mathematically correct?

I mean, if I want to know what 8 CR 15 creatures are, just look it up on the table and forget calculators?

Most tables are approximations based on rules of thumb. If you want to math out a precise number, great - use that number. If you want to use the table, great - use that number.

The difference is 12,800 xp divided among what, 6 characters of L14? 6 characters of L12 would be in for a tough fight against an equal number of CR 12 opponents. The difference is 2,133 xp per character, and L12 characters need 330k, 220k or 145k xp to advance, so any rounding/error factor is negligible.

It certainly is a good argument for advancement at the speed of plot if the players or DM are going to agonize over a comparatively miniscule deviation between the chart and a precise mathematical computation.

SeaJay · Jul 9, 2012

N'raac said:
Most tables are approximations based on rules of thumb. If you want to math out a precise number, great - use that number. If you want to use the table, great - use that number.

The difference is 12,800 xp divided among what, 6 characters of L14? 6 characters of L12 would be in for a tough fight against an equal number of CR 12 opponents. The difference is 2,133 xp per character, and L12 characters need 330k, 220k or 145k xp to advance, so any rounding/error factor is negligible.

It certainly is a good argument for advancement at the speed of plot if the players or DM are going to agonize over a comparatively miniscule deviation between the chart and a precise mathematical computation.

True.

I was just concerned that because the calculator answer differed from the table's, that the table was somehow wrong.

billd91 · Jul 13, 2012

Malgwyn said:
Page 398: Table 12-3

I checked what 6 CR 12 creatures would be on table 12-3. The calculator said 115,200 but the table says 102,400.

Table 12-3 was never meant to be mathematically correct?

I mean, if I want to know what 8 CR 15 creatures are, just look it up on the table and forget calculators?

That is basically correct. There is some math in there but you can also say that for several CR factors on the table, there is a noticeable round-off factor.

SeaJay · Jul 29, 2012

Do all classes get the same number of advances per level? I ask because I was thinking about doing away with the level progression where everything goes up at once, and making it more gradual.

'If' everyone does have the same number of advances (i.e. hit points, attack bonus, Fort etc save, etc), I was going to allow them to take one of those advances whenever they reached a certain number of xp.

When they take all advances that means they'd reached the next level.

If classes don't get the same number of advances then it may not work.

For example:

Fighter 1st level, let's say he needs 2000 xp to get to level 2 and let's say he has 4 advances.

1. Hit Point increase
2. Attack bonus increase
3. Save increase
4. A feat.

At 2000 xp needed, he'd choose one of the above at 500 xp, 1000 xp, 1500 xp, then finally at 2000 xp, and he's 2nd level.

So do all classes have the same number of advances per level?

N'raac · Jul 29, 2012

I suspect you;d have to analyze what each character gets at each level, parcel it out and assess how many stages each character goes through for each level. It should be closer than it was in 3e D&D, as Pathfinder has worked to alleviate "dead levels" where all the fighter, say, received could be attack bonus and hp.

Spellcasters would be interesting to parcel out. Wizards might get attack bonuses, save bonuses, two new spells for their spell book, an enhancement to their familiar, a bonus feat, increased caster level, more spells he can memorize at various levels, a new ability from his school, enhancements to an old ability from his school and/or a new spell level. And that assumes he didn't swap some abilities out within an archetype.

How will this approach deal with benefits gained based on character level, rather than class level, such as a feat every odd numbered level and an ability bonus every fourth level? I expect you have to pick your class before choosing any class benefits, but can I choose my new feat at L7 to meet the criteria for the PrC level I also want to take at L7?