Why do they keep on dying?!

Hi guys,

I am hoping for some advice. I have been playing dnd for about the last 13 years now with my dad in the early days and now with my little brother and a few friends and we love it, especialy 3.5 but we keep on running into a problem! We have alot of modules to choose from as we have been collecting for a while BUT the ers keep dying before level 9 leaving me to have to start all over again from 1 and lacking for material! We are strong believers in always starting from 1 but we know all the greats inside out, village of homlet, keep on the borderlands, caves of tzareu e.t.c.

So what im asking for here guys is just a list of low level modules (prefably official or some kind of series but can be any edition as converstions are easy to find) that i can slot in as the moment they reach 9 ive got circa 12 modules all of which I LOVE but currently some times we don't even want to play as it just feels stale!

Thanks in Advance for any help!

Try here:


paizo.com - Store / Downloads / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Modules / 3.5

Hollows Last Hope and Revenge of the Kobold King are free...(Last time I looked) There may be more.

R-Hero said:

Try here:


paizo.com - Store / Downloads / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Modules / 3.5

Hollows Last Hope and Revenge of the Kobold King are free...(Last time I looked) There may be more.

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Thanks ill give them a look now!

terrya said:

We are strong believers in always starting from 1 but we know all the greats inside out, village of homlet, keep on the borderlands, caves of tzareu e.t.c.

>snip<

...some times we don't even want to play as it just feels stale!

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1. reconsider

You know, in another thread just yesterday I was busily defending someone who was doing weird stuff in his game, because he loved doing it. But here, I'm just not sure what to say. You're doing stuff that makes you unhappy because... it's the "principle" of the thing? In a game? A game meant to be fun? And you're holding on to it so tightly that you've stopped gaming because you'd rather adhere to the principle?

The ideology of "always start at level 1" is not sacred, and if it is making it so that your group "doesn't even want to play" then you might consider knocking it off the pedestal. Reclaim your happiness.

There are many things that you can do once you get away from starting at first level. There are Goodman Games modules (Halls of the Minotaur, and Legends Are Born, Not Made) that start at zero and enable all sorts of fun play outside of the 1st-level mandate.

I'm a fan of starting at level 3, with older PCs. I do this partly because my friends and I are all in our 30s and 40s now, and playing teenagers feels weird. But also, the aging rules allow anyone playing a wizard to get a boost to Intelligence if he/she is old enough (of course, the aging rules also knock down the physical attributes, so I leave it open for players to fall on the younger or older side at their own discretion). We enjoy playing with the idea of grizzled old hardened men and women who spent most of their lives slowly acquiring XP via minor defense of a keep or pursuing a small trade or whatever, and then suddenly they are plunged into the adventuring life due to some catastrophe.

(Since PCs can go from level 1 to level 20 in a mere 30 to 300 days' time in the game world, it's typical in D&D to see PCs going from "humble teenager setting out on his own" to "ascending to godhood" all within the same year. Delaying this further into adulthood feels really good to me.)

In addition, if you start at level 6, 7, 8, or 9, you can easily incorporate interesting game mechanics that are typically painful for DMs at level 1. For example, level-adjusted races. A player wanting to select "minotaur" as his race will often find himself blocked by a DM that doesn't want the minotaur's natural attacks to overpower any low-level module. Yet if you start them at a later level, many level-adjusted races are not only viable, but easy and non-threatening.

2. playing along

So if what I just wrote above does not impress you at all, then fine, let's work with what ya got. I note that the modules you mentioned are indeed all classics in the classic sense -- that is, they have years on them, nostalgia working in their favor, time-tested, etc. But have you considered newer classics? What about the Freeport Trilogy from Green Ronin? What about modules from Necromancer Games? They had a few celebrated 3.5 edition modules that form a decent campaign (levels 1 to 15 or so). They are: The Lost City of Barakus, level 1 to 5, The Vault of Larin Karr, level 4 to 9, and Trouble at Durbenford, level 8 to 14.

In addition, you can swap out the Larin Karr module for another Necromancer Games module called The Grey Citadel, which covers roughly the same levels. Both Larin Karr & Grey Citadel are 3.0, whereas Barakus & Durbenford are 3.5. So you might need to do minor conversions for the middle module.

The modules are great for their weirdness & variety. Dungeons, wilderness, traps, monsters, puzzles, city & diplomacy/politics, etc. The are not just the same thing over & over again, which keeps me so happy. Plus, some of the NPCs are memorable and unusual. Bevin Nightwind, from the Durbenford module, I ended up fully statting out in HeroForge just because he was so fun. I believe there is a shape-shifting dragon living in that module too, and it was interesting enough to get me to write up a summary (for myself) of how weirdly & differently he would behave merely due to the fact that he wasn't actually human.

Although I don't have a lot of the Pathfinder modules, The Tower of the Last Baron was a great infiltration module for level 5 (IIRC).

I own a lot of Dungeon Crawl Classics modules, from Goodman Games. Cage of Delirium is an amazing haunted house module that comes with a soundtrack, if you get the printed module. The Sunken Ziggurat is awesome, and I had a fun time putting Zargon at the bottom of that dungeon (instead of the dragon god). The Scaly God reads well, though I've not run it. The Sinister Secret of Whiterock is a favorite of mine. I've run it 4 times now, I think. Same with Temple of Blood, which is technically a Goodman Games module, but not a Dungeon Crawl Classic. It's from their Wicked Fantasy line, and it's mostly an over-the-top mini-dungeon about kidnapped princesses who will throw themselves at the heroes once rescued.

My other two suggestions are as follows. First, you can get "The Adventure Begins" and "The Adventure Continues" to get two hardbound mini-module collections (each book has about 20 modules) that are for levels 1 though 6. Lots of variety, cheap price. Second, what about all the free modules that Wizards of the Coast put out? Have you tried them? Some are very good. In particular, Wreck Ashore, Burning Plague, Base of Operations, Hasken's Manor, and Treasure of the Black Veils were all very fun for me both as a player and later as a DM.

3. question

Why the heck are characters dying at level 9 and ending the campaign? At level 9, the party cleric has Raise Dead. And even if there is no party cleric, there should be enough cash in the group at that point to pay for such a spell from a local temple. Also, at level 7+ the combat shouldn't be over in just a round or two. Fights should be taking many rounds. So at that point, the players should have plenty of time to see how the fight is going, and flee if necessary. How are they getting caught off guard? Are they railroaded? Are there no easier options?

Ill respond to your points one by one and thanks for the helpfull post!

1. Were very big on becoming attatched to charecters and building a personality / story for them. We find this ALOT harder if we start them later on where theres no story behind that wand of fireballs your running around with. Obviously this story can be written but my PCS seem to strugle with that alott more than if its been played out.

2. The module i was about to try next was Burning Plague and the suggestion of The Lost City of Barakus, level 1 to 5, The Vault of Larin Karr, level 4 to 9, and Trouble at Durbenford, level 8 to 14, looks very promising! But other than that we have already tryed and played probably 90% of what youve listed. Freeport seems to get suggested on these boards quite regularly, a module i personally found quite dull! (atleast the first one we never moved beyond it).

3. We prefer to be very old skl rule / module wise. For example the temple of elemental evil had no one who would cast raise dead on an adventuring group and has had plently of encounters that killed partys, for lords sake the 12 zombies at the moathouse with the ogre has killed of 9 charecters in its time alone! The concept of running is not one weve ever been good at though granted, my pcs often take great risks and either they pay off or they die. We also find we HATE flexing the rules to allow charecters to die. For example on time they played so badly that iuzz him self ended up killing them, somthing i could of just not had happen but we like to play by the module as much as possible

terrya said:

For example the temple of elemental evil had no one who would cast raise dead on an adventuring group

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Noone in the group or noone in the setting? If you and your group know dying starts happening around this time, maybe a 'life insurance' might be a good idea. Have em make a habit of dropping by a high level temple right before dangerous adventures and say "We are embarking on a quest of great peril if we dont come back or contact you once every xx days via magic communication/whatever pls cast true ressurection on our cleric/whomever". Leave half the money for the resurrection with them and promise the rest when one of you gets resurected. Want to stick to the story as much as possible? Just make up legends to tell the players about how exceedingly dangerous it is and how many heroes have died. Then tell them a story of one hero that DID live and is living just in the next general area. Have him share resurrection trick.

Well terrya, again, it sounds like you are wedded to a lot of ideas that are causing you and/or your players to abandon the game. If they refuse to retreat and yet refuse to start a new campaign when the current one TPKs, maybe that's everyone's way of saying, "Thanks for all the D&D, but we're done."

Maybe it really is time to let it go?

If you or the group will keep doing things that make themselves unhappy, expect to be unhappy. No trickery there.

Having said that, if you find that the Necromancer modules mask the problem, then great! I personally found Durbenford to be a delight. I hope you do too.

Here is the back cover of the Lost City of Barakus, which has a short description of what's in store.

Larin Karr is the module that is famous for the underground tunnels that connect various adventure spots.

Barakus is probably the most "normal" of the modules even though it has some out-there concepts, and the dungeon can go on for too long for some players. Since Larin Karr overlaps (as far as what levels are appropriate), it's easy to ditch Barakus if you find the players are not having as much fun as you are. Durbenford is not so much weird or innovative as it is just really fun to play. The NPCs are great. In fact, I'm going to take a screenshot from my private forum and attach it. It shows a dossier of sorts that the players could see about the NPCs they were encountering. In the image, "Griffo and Olo" are just replacement names for the characters called "Thasik and Rug" in the module. Also, Helene is actually called Helen in the module.

I think I scrounged the mug shots from all the free Dungeon PDFs on Paizo's site. I don't think they came with the Durbenford module itself.

It seems that the party is very much stuck. Or at least the players, and may haps the GM.

It matters not if you think you are old school, new school, or not in school - the name of the game is just that, to game. It's an entertainment. And from the sounds of it, you have fallen from the entertainment wagon.

When the players and GM run everything the same, all the time, and the outcome always seems to be the same - then why, for pete's sake, are you always doing the same thing? If no one runs a Cleric or Druid in the group, how come no one has stepped over that boundry and opted to run one? Why has no one in the group said "Hey, this fight is going badly, lets retreat?".

It seems that you are very much in a situation of your own making.

Honestly, the only advice that I could give is that everyone needs to change things up a bit. Try different character styles, different types of classes, different tactics. It's fine to play a module as written, but that same module will feel very different if the group changes.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say you are playing all wrong (play style is open to interpretation). But you may want to trying changing up your play style. If it works - then great, you have achieved new things; if it doesn't, then nothing has been lost and you still achieved new things.

Just my two shekels.

1. Start with Dungeon magazine. There are plenty of good adventures in those pages.

2. Check out the free WotC modules from their website. Link.

3. Consider writing your own adventures. Sure you can run through the Moathouse again but what about seeing what is on the other side of Hommlet. Or go visit the gnomes in the Kron Hills. Or clear a trade route from Hommlet to Hardby.

4. Consider changing up your strategies. If death is something that is frequently occuring, -- especially TPKs around level 9 -- perhaps you should reexamine your party make-up. Or consider bringing hirelings along on your adventures. Perhaps your party is being too aggresive when a more measured approach is neccesary?

Could somebody give aboyd some XP? Seems I can't at the time being, and that's a shame, because his posts in this thread have been extremely constructive, summing up what I'd post if he hadn't already.

That being said, I'll work a different angle instead (ignore if not applicable):

Have any of you ever looked into character optimization? What's your party composition? Do you and your friends know what you're doing, or do you run a Cleric like a combat medic, a Wizard like a blaster, a Rogue like a frontliner, and a Fighter/Monk/Bard... well, like a Fighter/Monk/Bard? Do you at all optimize, or is that another thing on the "we'd rather not" list? Character Optimization, while not the same as powergaming, is not everybody's cup of tea, but maybe you could load up on some general tips and pointers in this and other forums? There's nothing shameful in playing a hero who's actually competent in his/her chosen field, after all.

Also, consider tactics: dying to a bunch of Zombies is, in my opinion, circumstantially possible but kinda disgraceful, if you'll forgive me for saying so. The damn things can't run (you can), they don't have missile attacks (you have), they don't have brains (you do). Work it out from there. There's very, very few level 9 opponents who are highly resistant to everything a well-balanced group could throw at them. Use their Achilles' heel, use your own options well, don't forget thinking outside the box (building traps to lure monsters into, using the environment, using social skills instead of brawn, hire NPCs to cover your weaknesses, etc.).


Summing up:
I greatly endorse the notion that you give up some of your play-hampering standards, even just for one or two games to see how it goes. Start veteran heroes at level 10 and enjoy being that much tougher than ever before. Or have your DM give you a break where NPC power and availability is concerned, for the sake of continuing the game.

But if you don't want to do that, at least try optimizing the (in-game) options you have left!