Pathfinder 1E Paizo Copyright Issues at Obsidian Portal?

Dannager · Jul 6, 2011

Reynard said:
It is always second hand accounts and urban legends and misremembered wrongs.

Is it your belief that no Paizo fan has ever ragged on WotC for issuing a C&D order?

And is it your understanding that, if such a fan exists, they have not popped into this thread to share their outrage?

GMforPowergamers makes a noteworthy point: if this were WotC, the reaction would be very different. And it's tough to argue with the fact that a lot of the difference in reaction would be on behalf of Paizo fans (or, perhaps more accurately, anti-4e/anti-WotC folk).

What we should be taking away from this is: Next time we see a thread in which WotC has taken action to protect its own IP, remember this thread. Remember how you reacted here. Make sure that you continue to react in a level-headed fashion. And when others do not react in a level-headed fashion, make sure they understand that their behavior is unwarranted and reflects poorly on their own community.

Reynard · Jul 6, 2011

Dannager said:
Is it your belief that no Paizo fan has ever ragged on WotC for issuing a C&D order?

No. it is my belief that far too often are vague "examples" of the misdeeds of one group -- Paizo fans -- being trotted out without examples or proof. It is tiring, at best.

Erik Mona · Jul 6, 2011

Might as well turn the thread into an edition war, eh?

Reynard · Jul 6, 2011

Erik Mona said:
Might as well turn the thread into an edition war, eh?

It's either that, or use it to discuss the nature of copyright and how it intersects with fandom, particularly on the Internet.

Nah...

Morrus · Jul 6, 2011

Erik Mona said:
Might as well turn the thread into an edition war, eh?

Awww, c'mon, Erik! We all love a good edition war!*

*Aside - we don't.

Zil · Jul 6, 2011

Dannager said:
I think his point was that we're four pages in and haven't seen that kind of behavior yet, from anyone. It's hard to believe that some of them aren't aware that this issue has come up, but apparently none of them have popped in to express their personal outrage.

This is, at best, selective outrage (targeted at a single company that they hate irrespective of the issue at hand, and ignoring another company they like irrespective of the issue at hand), and hypocrisy at worst.

I'd really prefer it if everyone were able to keep their heads and not get upset over any company utilizing the law to protect itself. But, inevitably, those people will return the moment WotC issues a C&D.

So all Paizo fans, silent or not, are therefore fair game as being labeled hypocrites because some hypothetical bad apples, who are also allegedly Paizo fans, didn't show up in this thread and make a stink? Okay....

Perhaps the claim would have more merit if it referred to specific people that were actually participating in the thread.

Umbran · Jul 6, 2011

I have not seen any documented individual instances of hypocrisy here.

However, I do recall several folks berating WotC heavily for similar action, and I can't say the resounding lack of same against Paizo doesn't look a little weird.

It seems to me both sides have a point.

I say now is the point in this thread we remember that business developments in companies are not a justification for treating fellow gamers poorly. Let us leave past hurts in the past, and move forwards - and consider the issue of poster hypocrisy closed in this thread.

czak · Jul 6, 2011

If you are clever with your google image search you can find cached images. Some are very tinsy tiny thumbnails. Then there are larger versions about 150 x 250 pixels where you can quite clearly see the images.

Apparently Paizo did not send the guy a C&D directly, they spoke to Obsidian Portal, and Obsidian Portal asked him to take the thumbnails off.

ThirdWizard · Jul 6, 2011

Reynard said:
It's either that, or use it to discuss the nature of copyright and how it intersects with fandom, particularly on the Internet.

Nah...

That sounds dangerously political!

Which is, by the way, why I haven't commented on the issue directly.

Sir Wulf · Jul 6, 2011

GMforPowergamers said:
You know, I read the news and said "Great! 200 page threads about how evil protecting your IP is," then got here and found almost no one saying "burn the evil corp".

Now I am just pissed at the hypocrisy. As much as I like the people at Paizo (and dislike their game), I will say this is a BIG thing that pisses me off about Paizo fans.

As a big Paizo fan, your criticism intrigued me. I went to Paizo's site and searched the boards for old threads using keywords like WotC, copyright, cease and desist, and PDF. While there were some very heated threads after WotC pulled their PDF files, the message from Paizo staff and most enthusiastic fans seemed to read that move as an ill-advised decision imposed from higher powers in the corporate chain.

Interestingly, several threads commented negatively about incindiary posts on other, non-Paizo boards. Many Paizo fans were critical of what they perceived as apparent trolling. Paizo's staff have always encouraged fans to remember that the people working at other game companies care about their games, too: Not everyone may agree about the best course for D&D's future, but WotC's business decisons aren't made from malice.

While my quick survey was hardly scientific or conclusive, the phenomenon you describe seems to me to be less an artifact of overzealous Paizo fans and more the product of free-range trolls.