General Discussion

Systole · Jan 9, 2012

The problem is that there are a range of polearms with different amounts of metal, ranging from 'like a spear with a slightly larger head' to 'like a battleaxe with a slightly longer shaft.'

How about three categories ...

Mostly wood - 50% weight reduction from darkwood. Spears, bows, javelins, quarterstaffs, wooden armor, wooden shields.
Mostly metal - 50% weight reduction from mithral. Swords, aces, maces, metal armor and shields.
Partially metal, partially wood - 25% weight reduction from darkwood. 25% weight reduction from mithral. Weight reductions stack. Costs are halved. This category covers all other polearms.

jkason · Jan 9, 2012

Songdragon said:
I am considering a few options for a character level up and was wondering if an player/GM has encountered a character build that had Dazzling Display and how effective it is in combat?

I haven't seen anyone actually use it before, but it seems like a nice way to compensate for the fact that there's no Improved Feint for Intimidating.

If you're looking for Zelena, though, I'd think the -4 penalty to Intimidate larger foes might make it less practical and possibly not worth the two feat slots for a gnome unless you had a growth ability you could use multiple times a day.

I am, of course, not the best at assessing optimization, so hopefully those better versed in the math of it will weigh in.

Systole · Jan 9, 2012

If you want to make Dazzling Display work, you really need to build toward it from character creation. It's not a great choice of a feat without the framework for it.

Systole · Jan 9, 2012

Another general question: Sylla has a trait that gives +1 to social skills when she's dressed fancy (150 gp worth of clothing or gems). Would it be possible to commission a swanky set of armor to make this work? In other words, can she spend 200g on a 50g suit of leather armor and trigger the trait bonus that way? I just can't see her wearing jewels or pretty dresses.

By the way, thanks for the ruling on the facepaint kit from a couple months back. It makes me happy.

Extremely Fashionable - Pathfinder_OGC

GlassEye · Jan 9, 2012

Systole said:
The problem is that there are a range of polearms with different amounts of metal, ranging from 'like a spear with a slightly larger head' to 'like a battleaxe with a slightly longer shaft.'

How about three categories ...

Mostly wood - 50% weight reduction from darkwood. Spears, bows, javelins, quarterstaffs, wooden armor, wooden shields.
Mostly metal - 50% weight reduction from mithral. Swords, aces, maces, metal armor and shields.
Partially metal, partially wood - 25% weight reduction from darkwood. 25% weight reduction from mithral. Weight reductions stack. Costs are halved. This category covers all other polearms.

This sort of rules modification is great... in a home game. It's another factor for character checkers to remember and keep track of here in LPF. I'm in favor of a simpler solution in the border cases such as the bill, etc. My proposal:

When a weapon contains both metal and wood in its makeup and it is not specifically addressed in the special materials section the player has the choice of applying one type of special material (i.e. a polearm with either a darkwood haft or a cold iron head but not both).

Systole · Jan 9, 2012

To be frank, I don't like that proposal. As one of my characters is a spear user, I was planning on evenutally upgrading her weapon to a cold iron head on a darkwood shaft, and I don't see why that should be an issue.

If it's a problem with character-checking, then make the costs cumulative but any weight reduction non-cumulative. A mithral halberd is half weight, and costs 500 gp/lb. A darkwood halberd is half weight, and costs 10 gp/lb. A darkwood+mithral haberd is half weight, and costs 510 gp/lb.

Walking Dad · Jan 9, 2012

I'm with Systole.

You can target both the metal and wood parts of a weapon with sunder, but only specific metals beat monster DR. Never ever silver tipped spears in a werewolf adventure sounds like a bad proposal.

GlassEye · Jan 10, 2012

Systole said:
To be frank, I don't like that proposal. As one of my characters is a spear user, I was planning on evenutally upgrading her weapon to a cold iron head on a darkwood shaft, and I don't see why that should be an issue.

If it's a problem with character-checking, then make the costs cumulative but any weight reduction non-cumulative. A mithral halberd is half weight, and costs 500 gp/lb. A darkwood halberd is half weight, and costs 10 gp/lb. A darkwood+mithral haberd is half weight, and costs 510 gp/lb.

It's an issue because it is specifically disallowed in the rules.

CRB pg. 154
If you make a suit of armor or weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material.

Walking Dad said:
I'm with Systole.

You can target both the metal and wood parts of a weapon with sunder, but only specific metals beat monster DR. Never ever silver tipped spears in a werewolf adventure sounds like a bad proposal.

Well, yes, if it's a darkwood spear. You could presumably still have an alchemical silver spear, it just can't also be a darkwood spear. And if you did have a darkwood spear you could still apply weapon blanch to it. (Although technically you could have a darkwood+silver spear but you'd only get the benefit of the 'most prevalent material').

The original question was how to determine the most prevalent material for weapons with both metal and wood in their make-up. This 50/50 is interesting but the CRB already covers this and I don't see a need to change it. My proposal above was meant to eliminate the 'prevalent material' argument that would inevitably arise and give players a choice.

Walking Dad · Jan 10, 2012

GlassEye said:
...
CRB pg. 154
If you make a suit of armor or weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material.
...

We need a better definition of "benefit". The benefits I can think of are:

- beats Damage Reduction
- counts as lighter stuff (medium becomes light armor)
- weight reduction
- Hardness / HP increase
- usable by more classes (dragonscale breastplates allows plate armor for druids)
- provides Damage Reduction (adamantine armor)

GlassEye · Jan 10, 2012

The benefits are all listed under the specific special material.

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