Leif's All-Eladrin DweomerFall Saga, [4E] [OOC 01] [full]

Leif · Nov 29, 2011

Sparky said:
DweomerFall could be the result of a breakdown of the laws of magic. Like, say, with thermodynamics. Energy can neither be created or destroyed. Say the same is true of magical energy. The DweomerFall is a breakdown of that fundamental law on the 'or destroyed' side. Using magic (Arcane keyword powers, magic item properties, new rituals, magic item powers, etc), destroys magic instead of temporarily transforming it.

If you want to give us interesting decisions (an important part of any good game, IMO) relating to how we manage the DweomerFall, let us choose if we can accept instability in our powers or items. If we choose stability, we hasten the overall effects of the DweomerFall (sensitive arcane creatures or sites suffer). If we choose instability (we accept some unpredictable or lesser effects for our powers or items), we can slow the effects of the DweomerFall.

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I totally agree with Walking Dad that making arcane based PCs less and less effective out of balance with other PCs is unfun on it's face. Could it be made fun? Possibly. But I agree that it should affect all PCs similarly. I mean, I like the idea that magically-barren Harnithael's 'condition' could end up saving everyone, but I'm not sure something like that needs to be woven into the largely well-balanced core combat mechanics.

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Our PCs could have developed a way to - through implements/items/rituals, stave off the effects of the DweomerFall (or if they themselves did not develop these methods, they are road-testing them for the House Mages).

Just some thoughts.

Walking Dad said:
So it is a failure chance for 'all' combat actions of the swordmage and the bladesinger, some of the skald's and none of the ranger and the assassin. Seems the later encounters will be much more favorable for the less arcane characters without compensation...
At least At-Will spells and class features with the 'arcane' keyword should remain reliable IMHO.

Also some notes:
1) There are no Will saves in 4e.
2) Bladesinger At-Wills are riders for MBAs.

IMHO, failing abilities are only fun if they affect all or no one. Even the spellplague novels have either all main characters suffer or no one. The cleric in 'Ghost King' is the special 'snow-flake' who can use the new magic.

Sorry if I sound defensive, but I like to play competent characters and I fear Galin will be more a liability later on.

Other ideas:
- The failing magic is a background think and affects more semi-permanent rituals and NPCs but the game rules for the arcane PCs are not affected.
- Eladrin can use their inner magic, spending a HS to ignore the failure chance to power the magic from within.
- Spells that fail because of the weakened dweomerfell are not considered spend. The spell is still in the character, he/she just failed to bring it into the world.

Ok, glad I brought this up! Those are some great ideas, you two! WD, I feel your pain, and that's why I was so hesitant to start this thing. I agree with you that the Dweomerfall should start out with little to no affect on the pcs. Frankly, that's why I made the save to resist it have such a low DC -- Sorry about the Will thing, eek. For now, consider Dweomerfall to be in suspension. I'll review the suggestions later when I have more time and come up with an alternate plan. Thanks for your help, Sparky and Walking Dad!

Sparky said:
IC post tomorrow AM. Sorry for not chiming in Sunday/Monday as stated. Nothing but excuses to offer.

No sweat at all, Sparky, just do the best you can - it's what we all do anyway.

Shayuri · Nov 29, 2011

I worked up a Skald build, but I don't like it as much as the normal bard. It's considerably more "warriorish" and not nearly as "leaderly." It also subverts the emphasis on ranged attacks I want Sulannus to have, since everyone else is a melee monkey.

Consequence of all this: Su's basic attacks -stink-. I am vaguely alarmed therefore at the notion that Dweomerfall means arcane attacks (ALL of mine) becoming basic attacks (and based on attributes I did not raise).

This does mean I'll be using the Cunning Bard build that I posted...though I still need to go over its details (final feat selection, gear, etc) to make sure I am satisfied.

Walking Dad · Nov 29, 2011

Radical idea: Why have the Dweomerfall have to affect 'arcane'? If we change it to 'primal' to represent the original old powers that are the life-blood of the land, druid and shaman healers could feel it's effects strongest and no PC would be directly affected, right? Even dragons are AFAIK not necessarily 'arcane' powered as they were in earlier editions.

Leif · Nov 30, 2011

Walking Dad said:
Radical idea: Why have the Dweomerfall have to affect 'arcane'? If we change it to 'primal' to represent the original old powers that are the life-blood of the land, druid and shaman healers could feel it's effects strongest and no PC would be directly affected, right? Even dragons are AFAIK not necessarily 'arcane' powered as they were in earlier editions.

Hmm, that's a thought. 'Primal' seems more in tune with the powers of a dragon, anyway. This will also be taken into consideration, but read on ....

Shayuri said:
I worked up a Skald build, but I don't like it as much as the normal bard. It's considerably more "warriorish" and not nearly as "leaderly." It also subverts the emphasis on ranged attacks I want Sulannus to have, since everyone else is a melee monkey.

Consequence of all this: Su's basic attacks -stink-. I am vaguely alarmed therefore at the notion that Dweomerfall means arcane attacks (ALL of mine) becoming basic attacks (and based on attributes I did not raise).

This does mean I'll be using the Cunning Bard build that I posted...though I still need to go over its details (final feat selection, gear, etc) to make sure I am satisfied.

Not so fast, Shayuri! I gave an indication yesterday that I was scrapping the idea of having the Dweomerfall inhibit arcane powers, and I'm even more certain of that course of action today than I was yesterday.

WD suggests that it be Primal powers that are affected. Hmm, not sure, possibly. Even more, though, what I was thinking about was just saying that no Arcane Attack Powers are affected, only Arcane Ritual Magic. The Arcane Attack Powers draw upon and are powered by the innate mana within the arcanist and the environment. Ritual magic, on the other hand, ordinarily has the purpose of manifesting arcane magic on an OBJECT.

Let me think a bit more, and maybe I can come up with a rationalization for the Dweomerfall to affect Primal Magic as well as Arcane Rituals.

Shayuri · Nov 30, 2011

Suggestion:

Dweomerfall currently manifests as sort of "power outages" in magic. They're brief, but disrupt ongoing magical effects. Combat magic is not generally affected, because it takes place almost instantly. Fwak-BOOM! Done.

But a ritual can take minutes or an hour to cast, and a fluctuation in magic during that time wrecks it. Plus, the effects of a ritual can last for days, or even longer! Again, disruption in magic can prematurely end it, forcing the whole thing to be done again.

For people like eladrin, who rely on ritual magic routinely in their society, it's devastating...without meaning that mages can't shoot magic missiles.

Plus, it's ominous. After all, what if it gets worse? What if the 'outages' grow in number, or in length? Suppose this is the first sign of magic power vanishing forever?

Panic!

But I'm still not going with the skald. I like the skald...but it's not right for Sulannus.

Leif · Nov 30, 2011

Shayuri said:
Suggestion:

Dweomerfall currently manifests as sort of "power outages" in magic. They're brief, but disrupt ongoing magical effects. Combat magic is not generally affected, because it takes place almost instantly. Fwak-BOOM! Done.

But a ritual can take minutes or an hour to cast, and a fluctuation in magic during that time wrecks it. Plus, the effects of a ritual can last for days, or even longer! Again, disruption in magic can prematurely end it, forcing the whole thing to be done again.

For people like eladrin, who rely on ritual magic routinely in their society, it's devastating...without meaning that mages can't shoot magic missiles.

Plus, it's ominous. After all, what if it gets worse? What if the 'outages' grow in number, or in length? Suppose this is the first sign of magic power vanishing forever?

Panic!

But I'm still not going with the skald. I like the skald...but it's not right for Sulannus.

Yes! I like your explanation/description better than mine: Dweomerfall disrupts an ongoing use of magic, which means that it does not affect magical melee powers. Rituals, however, are another matter. The ongoing effect is interrupted and disrupted forcing the ritual caster to begin again from the beginning. Only routine components would be spoiled by the starting over again, like candles and incense would still be burned and so forth. Say, rule of thumb, 1d6 X 10% of the ordinary ritual components would be lost if the ritual is disrupted, which would be determined by an "attack" by the Dweomerfall against the ritual caster's Will defense at about +1 for now.

I like Sulannus the way she is, too, Shayuri.

Leif · Nov 30, 2011

Grrrr!

Leif · Nov 30, 2011

~~Lou, I need for you to get me a name for your Shielding Swordmage ASAP. Looks like he's otherwise ready, which is good, because~~

We Welcome Rinivan Phaedran to the fest!

Also, I'm beginning to get the distinct feeling that there's gonna be a rumble in the jungle very soon now.

Everyone else all set?

Sparky · Nov 30, 2011

Lou's Swordmage is Quinivan.

Walking Dad · Nov 30, 2011

I'm set, but for some mundane equipment not listed on the sheet, like one everburning torch, some spare sunrods and an equipped horse. Heck, I want at last a group riding somewhere and not always walking or standing on a boat.